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…we put maps on that the community wants.Not to pick ends, but I don’t remember the community being overly involved in choosing the maps that went to administrative consideration.
It’s a double edged subject though, as there are many in the community that go, “Oh its new! I want!” and subsequently complain days later after they see flaws or have one bad experience. And there are not so many who have valid opinions or the professional approach to pick maps that gel well with the server, as it currently is/or was.
The community doesn’t always know what it needs. Only what it desires.
As for the maps chosen and process of implementation, both could’ve been handled better. Rather than it being a ‘You see a problem? Don’t play!” situation.
WCU Gaming has a communal and in some instances an international body, on which the actions of the gaming club reflect an impression of WCU as an institution on that community. It’d be nice to see Executives etc, taking that role of responsibility afforded by WCU a little more seriously in some instances, rather than having a preception of themselves that reflects nothing more than being a group of sterotyped gaming adolescents.
The decision makers need to know the needs of their charges, and how to present and implement for those needs. Because when you get upset people, it only makes you guys feel worse than you need to.
I think loot makes a good point. In that admins need the power required to improve the servers situation when the need arises, that could be removing a hacker, revoting when only unpopular map choices are available etc.
But, admins arn’t given many potentially disruptive powers for very good and sound reasoning. It’s important to remember maturity beyond age isn’t something every admins is blessed (or is it cursed?) with, friendly and great individuals they may be, it does take an awful lot of responsibility and constant self discipline to maintain complete fairness in the face of the potential to have free reign. Such responsibility is something that the Admins should not have to be burdened with daily, nor something that the WCU hierarchy should then have to spend more and more time policing and dealing with, due to complaints based on opinions like, what constitutes a good map, when is ‘uberslapping’ appropriate etc.
Perhaps due to the declining nature of the CS1.6 community, some slack should be given to allow Admins to aid the server in attracting and retaining numbers. But the server should always be reined in far enough to keep to the standards of WCU that are the defining characteristics of this community of games players.
I think we’ve all had a few occasions now to play through the new maps… So it’s probably a good time to get some first impressions from everyone.
Personally, I’ve been quite pleased, most of all that the new maps “arn’t” perfect. They haven’t come in and taken over voting for the next month while driving away some players due to bordem. They’ve actually become good fun alternatives to what WCU offers, which is good de_ maps that suit the lose team play style.
The only other thing I’II say is, that Strata is a good map, but its one of the many custom de_’s available and the potential is there still to find something else that improves on the kind of experience it offers, although well developed, the map lacks some refinement in regards to gameplay – offering only destinct confrontation zones and little else in between. I’m being a mite picky with my opinion, but it is only because the potential is there for improvement/or something better. The de_ maps being the life blood of the server, I think its important to offer the best available.
Anyone else ready with their opinion?
We had some of the maps in the rotation today. I believe someone mentioned removal of the old awp map, and inclusion of the new awp map. Which although still an awp fest, is quite fun and allows for some interesting play scenarios.
I did suggest, slowly intergrating each map (1 a week), so that there wasn’t a huge interruption in play, and so that people didn’t have as many reasons to whine so that complaints become more managable.
It seems like the prospect of new maps though has become a, ‘OOoh! Wouldn’t it be cool if!” issue. Some of the choices have potentially serious problems and dumping them into rotation seems very haphazard.
“Yes, it might cause a fuss for a few days/weeks so what!?”, its unnecessary fuss that could largely be avoided.
Tracking that constantly during play might not be great for server load, but if the bot took a reading at the start of the round during the buy-timer, and then checked that later on it could work… although, it’d probably not be worth the effort, the server isn’t exactly fast pace, and some people appreciate getting a free plant or a free kill. Its not too often that we encounter the problem, and its never become a serious issue.
You should. I’m not downing your abilities, I’m just thinking professional standards.
For a lot of small groups, things like this are about salability, there are certain types of designs that look good when multiple people wear them (team gear), then there are designs that are seemingly meant to be one offs and look weird when multiple people are seen sharing the same design, which detracts from the salability.
For some small groups, things like this are about community, and again the same rules about team-styled wear applies.
Also by creating something that people will wear more casually, that looks smart and isn’t over whelming you might just create a bit more buzz on campus and detract some of the geekiness from the gaming scene. Which only helps you guys more.
My advice would be… Look at T-Shirts that actually look cool, then do something similar. Right now you’ve got 8th Grade Photoshop work. Don’t you have Graphic Design majors or Artists in your gaming club? One of the styles currently in use in the Game and Media industry is plain well spaced text down the front of the right facing shoulder. Or you could have the text along the bottom ending in the bottom right facing corner with a WCU tag on the line of the top right facing shoulder.
Erm, the reason I wouldn’t write home about IRC is that I only used to join it to request assistance with hacking, and neither servers IRC channel would come back responsive.
I see what you’re saying about taking the rules seriously though, but that wasn’t something I had wished to bring into contention. Just that religion is often used to justify actions with highly questionable interpretations of scripture. My experiences on the APP server reflects this, in that some admins use the guiding rules as an excuse to assert and justify unnecessary uses/abuses of power …
Thats nice. Anyone clued in on whats going to happen the first time de_corse comes round on the vote selection and gets picked?
:/ It’s all very childish really. It’s the sort of conflict that should be saved for the gaming servers and fake polygon guns with their digital bullets.
No matter the effort put in already, or the on going efforts being made, in some areas both groups still suffer from a lack of professionalism (no matter the posturing some people like to perform) and its always highlighted by problems like this one – when the reaction to the problem becomes an *edited* covering exercise or a dictatorial “I’m right, because I have power in this situation and you don’t.”. It’d be nice to see those on the high ground have a little humility and/or compassion sometimes.
The biggest kick in the teeth is I doubt anyones even going to learn from this, it’ll just be more wood for the… ‘you’re assholes, where as we smell like roses” future forum fire.
Brian, yes I have been on the IRC channels, for App and WCU. Though I wouldn’t write home about either of them, so to speak.
Erm, if corse didn’t pass a test play… is it still in the pack? If it is, isn’t that just a waste for all concerned?
Oh, and if anyone wants a spyware/adware free non-intrusive windows download program, I’d have to recommend the free version of Star Downloader. I use it for larger files, or on troublesome servers simply because when allowed, the 3 additional download connections it makes normally quadruples the download speed or maximizes it based on your connection. Note: I bare no affiliation with said product, nor do I represent WCU’s stance on said product.
Only thing I’m inclined to say after the explainations is, desert isn’t made for less than 5 a team. It really is a big game map. And if its in the rotation, people will get to understand that. But in or out, atleast something was learnt from it.
Yeah its a weird map, going outside is totally pointless for hostage retrival, as you can get so caught up you don’t have time to get back to rescue zone.
Its really a team-deathmatch as it is, but it would probably play better as a defuse map with the team spawns reversed.
desert_atrocity should be fun, but its one of those maps thats built for a large number of players, but as soon as you get more than 8v8 you’re getting shot from more angles then you can keep track of, especially with all the little hides that seem so popular for a few players on the WCU server. Players will probably develop a love/hate relationship with it, where point *edited*s will take to slow pace camp outs due to the inability to rush safely.
de_corse has a ridiculous file size for a pub server whos population relies heavily on drop-ins. It might not last long in rotation no matter how beautiful it looks.
de_strata, plays like a mad combination of Nuke and Dust2. ‘nough said.
de_russka, playabilitys okay… feels more like a 1.6 map though. A few too many open spaces, promotes big confrontations. Not sure why it was picked.
awp_subzero, not a perfect awp map, but it’s definately above and beyond awp_map. A worthy ‘replacement(?)’.
Erm… its been on the server for quite some time. Its not a bad map, but definately gets the better of some people, and its very easy for the CT team to be overwhelmed due to the relateively short round time.
It used to be somewhat popular, but now, I doubt anyone would notice if it disappeared from the vote selection.
Facist, you seem to be replying without actually understanding what you’re replying to….
Its not the awp that limits skill, its the map. The awp can be used in more ways than just, side stepping and shooting, and thats all the awp_map caters for. Get a map that allows the awp to be used properly.
Yes, awp_map has populated the server before. As stated, it brings in players wanting something that the server doesn’t have a lot of. Naturally because of this, for most of them it’ll be their only visit to the server, because the server doesn’t offer that gameplay in large amounts. It’s also managed to unpopulate the server with players who do support the server regularly and doesn’t attract WCUs majority player demographic. Which means, after the awp_map players leave, the server needs to be repopulated with people who will enjoy what the server largely offers.
These positive effects and the fun can be improved, and the negative effects dampened by having a better awp_map. Right now the map is really pathetic and limiting, awp_map can end up being nothing more than an point ATM.
Yeah I like port too. And I see its balance issues. And agree, something better could take its place. But awp_map really isn’t about learning something, it takes away the limited skill needed to use the awp effectively, and turns the game into a turky shoot, almost like playing Rebel Assualt, but with extremely limited vertical movement. As I said, I can have fun on awp_map, and never admitted to disliking it. But it also needs to be remembered that the people that awp_map attracts come for that limited playability, and that doesn’t represent the other 98% of the gaming done on the server.
Take that sk_playground map above and map it an awp map, and you’d have such a better, more varied style of play and cater for the majority of players.
http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/search?s%5Bm…e%5D=playground You might find it there. If not, look for the SK playground map. It might be something worth consideration. Along with dm_playground_beta.
Its a shame there are no overly talented map developers amongst the community that could speak up and put together a SK map for the server. Perhaps even sporting some sponsor information or some signage further reiterating that the awesome server people are playing on is [WCU], SK maps bring in a lot of irregular traffic and making sure they know where to come back to could be beneficial, as well as presenting something thats currently available no where else.
Port is fun for me. I can have fun, although limited amounts on awp map. But honestly I don’t care about yours or my own personal desires, I’d rather concentrate on whats important to retain the quality of the server so that ‘everyone’ can have fun, and not just Kuros.
Disagree. Toggling A & D while essentially having no need to even touch the mouse bar tapping the left-mouse button, does not a map make. It boils the game down to ping vs ping, admittedly great for you guys over at WCU.
The reasons for removing Port yet keeping awp_map must be down to personal preference, because logically the thing people tend to end up hating on Port among other things is the awping. Port may not be perfect, but neither is it as dramatically flawed in its playability as awp_map is. Ports playability is crippled due to reliance on player/team organization. Awp_map just cripples playability to one aspect, of one segment of play; seeing as it retards playability would it be wrong to call it a retarded map?
I’d have to conclude that both Port and awp_map arn’t suitable for the majority of play that takes place on the server. Port, because the lack of co-ordination that often takes place on the server can make the map frustrating, and because the enforced retardation of awp_map, dumbing down play to a singular aspect for 20 minutes is just as or even more so frustrating.
While both maps might have appealing characteristics, Port although imperfect is enjoyable by a larger majority of the server traffic due to the variance in playability, while awp_map caters to a specific player market that doesn’t represent the key gameplay qualities sought by the normal server traffic.
I guess it needs to be stated :/ my second paragraph is a discourse on aim botting detection, not a reference to you, your demo or a pro or con statement in regards to anything said thus far. It just is.
Although if you read between the lines. Getting banned for hacking is one thing, some hacks are hard to detect or impossible to pin down to a certain peice of evidence. Thats not the case with aimbotting, its blatant.
Someone or a group of people incharge of the banning process have stated the demo indicates aim botting. Right or wrong, no amount of posting, alternative suggestioning, or posturing is going to change what is factually a definitive call. If you feel the administration is lying about the demo or mistaken because you play CS:S like a duo core processor, then those are the answers you’re going to have to live with and rectify, unfortunately you’ll have to rectify them else where due to the unfortunate nature of the issue.
Italy Blitz definately has potential. Maybe someone should headhunt a similar map to swap it out for. So we retain the style of play, but lose the altogether low quality map.
Seriously. Enough is enough. You got banned. There is no legitimately proven reason for shake-and-snap. If there is somewhere, you can still take this as a blessing, as you’re being saved from ‘serious’ RSI issues and can go about enjoying the rest of your life pain free.
And btw, when checking for aim botting, there is a natural time delay between sight, comprehension and reaction. Aim botting negates this natural delay and instantaneously snaps back to target by pre-empting the necessary movement perfectly, everytime. It initially slows down or cuts short the recoil by creating an instant opposing force so can be seen as soon as the fire key is pressed. Its unfakeable and unmistakable.
ds_strata looks like it’ll suit the current play dynamic we already have.
We don’t need numerous sniper maps in rotation.
awp_map is a hugely limited map thats caught up in one style of play and constantly ends up with large numbers of players sat out for more than half the rounds or simply camped for the majority of time. I really don’t like the awp only style of gameplay, but still, there has to be a better map than this for it, one that allows for the awp to be used as something more than a pop-tarting weapon. Frankly, you could restrict Italy to awps only and it’d be more fun than awp_map.
Hmm, I’m not a big SK fan, but it draws in the players. And even the standard maps do, .. Office, even Train for some people. Maps that are recognizable are an instant plus.
Therefore I think its necessary to approach the ‘fy’ maps and others hesitantly. Personally I think the ‘fy’ maps have a lot of class to them in some respects, but adding too many new maps could potentially upset the positive turn over of players that keeps the server full most nights.
When and if we do adopt new maps, can we try and limit them to the ‘best map/s’ and implement them slowly, say one per week? Just so that their impact can be fairly judged. Perhaps even have the non-standard maps marked for the auto-picker so that they can be chosen less often so that we can then retain a lot of what we already have actively being played, which seems to have been a winning formula thus far.
OMG! I just played and shook my hand when I was aiming and I’m 13-1!!!!
… sorry, kidding. This topic was just feeling a little sad and depressing. :/ btw manual shaking of a mouse AND aim would require massive amounts of arm strength and a highly underweighted mouse, as the strain on the required muscles becomes enormous over time. Where as, high sensitivity and shaking creates an impossible aiming situation where the slightest hand shake you can make sends the cross hair off target, not bouncing around inside the area in which the application is rendering the player mesh. Unfortunately facts considering your story.
