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tralfangar said:
Adam don’t be like that haha
Anyways, as JB already said, these “insults” and “jealousy” are coming from people who don’t officially represent the server and don’t even live in North Carolina or go to App. JB and myself are basically phased out as the people in charge of the club and the server. The new leaders are just beginning classes today and the first meeting is soon, so I imagine there will be some changes in the near future.
/end official response
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Now from a personal perspective and an alumnus non-official candid reply, I’ll try to instill a little bit of the App view. I’m sure the Western guys will just laugh some of this off as “typical Appy *edited*”, but it needs to be said nonetheless.
We are not jealous of you in the least. From a school standpoint we have no reason to be (two National Championships, better academics, better facilities, better campus, better location, etc). From a gaming club standpoint we have no reason to be. That is unless you consider it jealousy that we want to be funded by residence life, as you are. Even then, our financial situation is comparable to yours aside from the server donation you got from IT (which seems to have been more than a headache than it was worth?)
Dice mentioned this briefly, but I’d like to elaborate. In the beginning our clubs helped one another, and continued to do so until your new president was elected. The leaders from both schools were decent friends, and still are, and they helped each other because we were both experiencing similar problems and predicaments. No, it’s not that one club copied another, nor is it that one club magically manifested itself into something superior. Both clubs are where they are today because of cooperation and communication. So, no Adam, technical issues are not the only thing we have in common and are not the only thing you have learned from us, and vice-versa. We have traded sponsor contacts, we have learned what works for setup, we have learned what tournaments attract the most, we have learned how to build support within the campus community, among other things.
As for the cs server, I think the underlying problem is that we are both competing for an ever-dwindling pool of 1.6 players. Ultimately, even if Western helped the App cs server (what would you even do to help??), the twilight is near and I do believe it is time to move on to new games. Furthermore, I find it funny and a sign of the times (ie that I’m old) when the new president says things that word for word describe the experience on the App server for upwards of 3 years:
“I firmly believe that WCU’s secret to success is the community that we strive to create. We want people to feel welcome in our server with strictly enforced rules and admins on at all times to enforce them so that gameplay is both smooth and always fun. I think that the smooth gameplay and mainly the community is what has made and continues to make WCU a more successful server.”
When the new president of the western gaming club doesn’t even know what the history between the two clubs has been and considers a statement of condescension to be his contribution to the discussion, I think the channels of communication need to be reopened. Kuros, you really should get in touch with the new President of ASUGC and see what can be done. That is, unless you want to continue being obstinate and thinking you will never need any assistance. The previous leaders did a fairly decent job of keeping those channels open, but I think we did fail when it came to introducing the new leaders to one another. I apologize for not keeping you in touch with the new people.
I will not be around to reply to this since I am heading to France for a while. Although I think there are some valid points, do not take this as anything more than one perspective on a situation that honestly should NOT even be a situation. Remember that saying, “Don’t make mountains out of molehills” ? Yeah..don’t.
amen Phil.
Ugh, limited experience with App, but to be honest, its for the same reason their server is failing, and its the same reason its being driven into the ground currently.
Theres a lack of maturity, you don’t have to be Business Executive style mature to run a game server, but you do need a fair amount of maturity to A. Choose a good server setup, B. Tailor that setup to the servers needs and not your personal desires and C. Encourage community expansion.
Right now they’re in a tough situation. Yet supposedly they have harsher administration than WCU… theres a reason why the WCU Admins don’t come down on stupid little things that will sort themselves out, theres a reason why they don’t treat the rules like the 10 commandments or go off raving about “Article 9, sub paragraph 12 ii.vb 9, Passage Blockage Violation!!! Achtung!”. Frankly, its blatantly clear why.
If it takes a debate to know what a good server setup for your server is, then you obviously have a leadership problem. In the end you just open yourself up to conflicting suggestions and in the best case scenario an unhappy minority. Which does not encourage community expansion.
The key to community expasion is respect. Players who come to your server need to respect you and want to spend their important time in your company. Frankly the App forum and the visable lack of aforementioned maturity turn people like me away instantly.
Some people may not like people like me for posts like this one… but in the end its people like myself and others with similar demands and requirements who end up becoming server regulars. And its these people that make a server popular.
As long as you continue to support the community and give suggestions and posts that are positive or have some helpful criticism then your welcome to post and are encouraged to continue and stay here.
eh, just randomly chipping my $0.02 about rival schools… I come from another BIG local rivalry, Pisgah v. Tuscola. Tuscola’s from one side of Haywood, and Pisgah the other. Honestly they’re about a 20 minute drive from each other. For many many years our schools have been rivals in *edited* near every aspect of athletic competition, from football to baseball to whatever else. The two schools aren’t in the same conference, yet they play every year. Trust me, it’s f***ing huge. I would venture to say that we prolly put a capacity crowd by WCU’s stadium into a stadium with nowhere near the same capacity. We have bonfires the night before the big game. We had a f***ing Charlie Daniels concert at the football game last year. A Highway Patrol helicopter brought in the game ball. I’m telling ya, it’s huge. but 20 minutes after it’s over, guys from either side of the stadium are hanging out at the Huddle House or Sonic or getting smashed together or whatever else. In essence, the rivalry is the knot that keeps a very tremendous friendship between the two schools any time other than game day.
I dunno if that compares 1:1 to the WCU v. App rivalry, but that’s what I have in mind that we should try to be and support between the two clubs. On game day, or LAN day, bitter enemies. but as soon as it’s all said and done, the kind of crowd that kicks back and has a few figurative cold beers with each other. Or those like Kuros that are old enough really could.
heheh, pinkcs has never been on irc either I’m betting.
I kinda take it like Kuros says. We are actually pretty hard about enforcing the rules. But those rules are essentially designed around maintaining the health of the community.
Yes i agree with pinkcs.. i was a regular @ appstate and the admins there were horrible. Any player that had a little bit of skill was banned. Some admins were okay but very few. just a bunch of immature kids.
just a bunch of people that cant handle a player being good at the game…i myself have been accused of hacking there…and for those of you that know me, know thats a f–ing joke and a half lol
We are hard because we have to be. No one but Nodice and Adambomb knows how tight a leash I’m on with the powers that be. Anything in the least bit out of line and this whole thing would get shut down. Plus I honestly think people would rather play in a cleaner environment. I know I would.
Kuros everything WCU had a problem i went to Phil and JB for advice .. They know the struggles that we have.
tralfangar (Phil) I agree with you on all of your points. You were mostly right by saying
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When the new president of the western gaming club doesn’t even know what the history between the two clubs has been and considers a statement of condescension to be his contribution to the discussion, I think the channels of communication need to be reopened. Kuros, you really should get in touch with the new President of ASUGC and see what can be done. That is, unless you want to continue being obstinate and thinking you will never need any assistance. The previous leaders did a fairly decent job of keeping those channels open, but I think we did fail when it came to introducing the new leaders to one another. I apologize for not keeping you in touch with the new people.When i had a hand in the club it always made it clear that we wanted to be bigger and better than you. But we always asked for advice and wanted have some of the qualities that you guys had at your lans/meetings. The reason we are here today is because of the ideas that you guys had. But we are missing one big thing and its prolly the only thing i can say that our new execs do not have the respect for History. If you didn’t know they locked me out of most of the servers at one time and asked me (why do you need permissions to that?) hopefully they have put that behind them now.
as for what i said earlier that Jealously drives greed .. I think that you read it wrong. I dont think anyone likes to admit it but the WCU gaming club is jealous of APP and the APP club is jealous of WCU. I could name many ways that this goes back in forth. Some are not true, Some are known fact. and most are outside tha gaming club’s in general.
We are more so alike than different in general. But in operations we have become few but far apart. (our markets) (our objectives) (the reason’s we even survive)
I have always
Anyway .. when you getting back from France? Why are you going to France. BTW! Dude i got this new buckle and it says (Beer Pong ChaMp!) its like the coolest freaking thing !!!
Adam, I don’t want you to be locked out, plus when I was voted in as webmaster I was told I could ask you and Michael to stay on as alumni admins and so I would like it if you would do that. You know much more about this than I do, I just hold the title right now.
Bitey my comments were not ment for you. The people who those comments were for know who they are.
Thanks for your generous comments. If you didn’t know the 3 founders are always around if you need help. All 3 of us are programmers so we can help with the odd stuff.
:/ It’s all very childish really. It’s the sort of conflict that should be saved for the gaming servers and fake polygon guns with their digital bullets.
No matter the effort put in already, or the on going efforts being made, in some areas both groups still suffer from a lack of professionalism (no matter the posturing some people like to perform) and its always highlighted by problems like this one – when the reaction to the problem becomes an *edited* covering exercise or a dictatorial “I’m right, because I have power in this situation and you don’t.”. It’d be nice to see those on the high ground have a little humility and/or compassion sometimes.
The biggest kick in the teeth is I doubt anyones even going to learn from this, it’ll just be more wood for the… ‘you’re assholes, where as we smell like roses” future forum fire.
Brian, yes I have been on the IRC channels, for App and WCU. Though I wouldn’t write home about either of them, so to speak.
I was making light of the fact that the rules are often treated like the ten commandments here. Like we have quite a frustrating time seeing someone hack, then we start the demo and they will stop and then we wait again, and wait.
Erm, the reason I wouldn’t write home about IRC is that I only used to join it to request assistance with hacking, and neither servers IRC channel would come back responsive.
I see what you’re saying about taking the rules seriously though, but that wasn’t something I had wished to bring into contention. Just that religion is often used to justify actions with highly questionable interpretations of scripture. My experiences on the APP server reflects this, in that some admins use the guiding rules as an excuse to assert and justify unnecessary uses/abuses of power …
Pinkcs I think there is a lot to be learned from this. And the largest lesson is to learn from others and respect their opinions but let them know when they are wrong in a kind way. Saying someone is an idiot because of their opinion is just a childish remark.
And in my opinion the reason our servers are up is because of how many redirects were hosting on them. I think there are 3 on tron and 3 on my box. Even 2 more at night when i dont use my computer and can spare the ram.
pinkcs said:
Kuros was an APPie Admin in a past last… … buurnn.
I call bull*edited*.
Adam Faulkner said:
he was going to transfer to app last year also ..I don’t call bull*edited* but am thankful I saw the light.
I did just want to point out that from what I’ve seen, 9 times out of 10 the old AppState regulars are #1 on T and CT on just about every map on the WCU regular server.
We’re lending our leetness and increasing your server’s street cred as it were
BTW – Thx for running the servers
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as for what i said earlier that Jealously drives greed .. I think that you read it wrong. I dont think anyone likes to admit it but the WCU gaming club is jealous of APP and the APP club is jealous of WCU. I could name many ways that this goes back in forth. Some are not true, Some are known fact. and most are outside tha gaming club’s in general.We are more so alike than different in general. But in operations we have become few but far apart. (our markets) (our objectives) (the reason’s we even survive)
I have always <3ED apps gaming club (speaking on behalf of Tyer,Split, and Myself). The only time I have disliked app was last football season! Freaking A!
Anyway .. when you getting back from France? Why are you going to France. BTW! Dude i got this new buckle and it says (Beer Pong ChaMp!) its like the coolest freaking thing !!!
Thanks for all the kind words Adam, and I apologize if I came off a little harsh. I just get fed up when people who don’t know what has happened in the past try to make broad generalizations about other clubs. Ultimately I think you’re right in the sense that there is an underlying current of competition between the two organizations. This is what drives the meaningless swipes at each other. I don’t know what the answer is to that problem, but I think a good step would be all of us admitting it exists.
As for France, I’m back now, but I am going over for 2 1/2 years beginning in December. I’m going to be studying viticulture and enology (winemaking basically) at a school outside Bordeaux near St. Emilion. When I get settled and whatnot you’re definitely welcome to come visit.
I know that JB is in Raleigh and just got his Redhat cert. You still living near app? You going for your Masters ?
I think the fix for it all is to take it to the Table. That huge table that you had and go get some cups. Being its the season to become jolly. Ill never forget those nights.
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