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BallzRawlz said:
For all that don’t know me…I am BallzinurJawz from CS:S.I go to Clemson and Lemm and BeastlyBen (who are also a part of the forums) are my roommates.
Go to the March 21st WCU LAN to meet me in person.
It’s a date then!
I think we should sticky posts that people make constantly. Like the “bring back the vote” post or “Why can’t I bunny hop” post or “I cussed everyone out and spammed, but it was my brother, why am I banned?” post. That way people can add their two cents there and we can have room for meaningful discussions.
Like “what’s your favorite character skin?” post.
Mine’s The Arab, with the killer Ray Bans.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/04/news/econo…sion=2009030409
Federal officials release details of $75 billion loan modification and refinancing programs. Borrowers can start contacting loan servicers.
“This plan will help make home ownership more affordable for nine million American families and in doing so, help to stop the damaging impact that declining home prices have on all Americans,” said Housing Secretary Shaun Donovan.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/03…eement-housing/
The deal would require judges to consider whether homeowners were offered a “qualified” loan workout defined as one that would meet Obama’s goal of monthly payments equal to about one-third of a homeowner’s income.”
The agreement includes changes whereby bankruptcy judges would have to deny a judicial mortgage adjustment in cases where the homeowner is deemed able to afford the loan.
So tell me why this is all wrong again? It seems like a start at least. Now I am an architecture major, not an economics or business major, so I can’t really say I know everything that is going on to help fix (or hurt) our current housing problems. I try to read up on both sides, anyway, I saw these two articles up and thought they were kind of relative.
Ephraim said:
Vaguely relevant:those are the same yellow bellied chickens who said sorry about voting for bush. Indecisiveness is such a turn off these days.
Ephraim said:
Derailing FTW!Nonsense this train will never stop!
except to get munchies
lol those PSAs are classic
Bitey said:
Also agreed, I wasn’t suggesting that “marijuana users are evil people”, quite the opposite. I think my idea stems from the fact that it is already so well hidden, if it were to be legalized would people that have been hiding it, quit hiding? Why would they if they could continue to sell marijuana untaxed, people are not evil, but people certainly are greedy, and though I would like to believe all the people would cooperate I doubt that would be the case, and that we would still have people hiding and dealing illegally (untaxed).Because in the end the growers and “dealers” are going to lose a lot of customers. From the perspective of the consumer, the idea of being able to legally purchase marijuana is much more appealing and less “scary” than buying it from a shady dealer. The only reason we risk it now is because it’s illegal, but if there was a legal option (which there already is in some states) it will catch on like fire, no pun intended. Eventually, if the producers want to continue “business as usual” they’ll do it the legal way.
As to what approach do the republicans have that could help solve it? Go ahead and blame Clinton now for the housing crisis, but we saw what happened when we gave power to a republican for 8 years, lots of war and debt woohoo. We might be in for a *edited* load of debt, but at least we will have something to show for it in the end.
Bitey said:
Here is a story for you guys.In California it is legal to have on you and smoke a certain amount of marijuana, I don’t know the exact amount but it might be enough to fill up a very small bowl. Anyways, my story comes from a businesswoman that had just returned from Afghanistan. She went to California for a little R&R and was on the beach smoking a cigarette. She looks around at people and notices a guy putting some marijuana in a bowl and lighting it up. The guy smokes it for a while and a cop comes walking up, the cop says to the guy, “Hey, you got anymore of that?”, the guys says, “No officer this is all I had sorry man.”, the officer says thats OK and tells him to enjoy the rest of his day. The cop then walks over to the woman and writes her a $150 dollar fine for “smoking a cigarette on the beach”. I don’t get it, can anyone enlighten me? From what I can tell, it is illegal to smoke cigarettes on the beach but you can smoke marijuana if you want to?
On a side note, the only reason I know for not legalizing marijuana is the fact that there is no way that the government can tax it. Because of the fact that there are so many ways that it makes its way into the US. I don’t think the issue is whether it is “right or wrong”, I think it is the fact that the government can’t get “their share” of the money moving through. No one can really say that being a “pot head” is right or wrong, that is a life choice, the only time I would say it is wrong is when being a “pot head” gets in the way of your job, family, health, friends, and responsibilities. When smoking stops you and/or keeps you from what you need to do for any of those things, then it is time to stop smoking, in my opinion.
Agreed. Except for the part on taxing. The majority of marijuana circulating in the united states is made here at home, by domestic growers. There is something like 300,000 to 400,000 commercial marijuana growers according to a statistic floating around. The majority of them aren’t from California, but are in the “Marijuana belt” which basically encompasses much of the Ohio, Tennessee, Kentucky, Virginia area all the way towards th edge of Kansas and Arkansas. Alot of farmers and people who claim to be farmers hide much of their product in corn fields or some where secret on their large patches of land. The economics of marijuana are also pretty fascinated. We already know that it is the number one cash crop in America. Even when it’s not taxed it’s still affecting the economy, and not necessarily in a bad way. If it was legalized, you could tax it in any store that decided to sell it. And it’s not like marijuana users are evil people, that want to skip out on taxes. They encompass a broader range of society than that. I know doctors, businessmen, and teachers who all happen to enjoy a toke every once and a while. And they would gladly pay a tax if it was legal.
MasterP said:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?…/BU7O166J6Q.DTLSo we all know the rich buy property, it’s a solid investment and usually makes for good supplemental income through rentals and the like. We also know the rich are the only ones not really having issues actually paying their bills when it comes to mortgage payments.
Now why would Obama go and remove the only monetary insentive to actually take out a loan on a house? The existing system phased the benefit out for the “rich” to make the benefit gradually less than those the “poor” and “middle class” get but now the “rich” get absolutely nothing.
If the rich quit buying property this whole mortgage crisis thing isn’t going to get any better. I would think Obama would be doing everything in his power to encourage purchase of distressed and forclosed property, not eliminating the tax incentive for the most able to do so.
The article speaks for itself. Just depends what you take from it. You got potential Housing Catastrophe part DUR. I got more money for health care, renewable energy, and improvement in education:
“For the people in that income strata … the dollar magnitude is not that great,” said Richard Pon, senior tax manager at Lautze & Lautze in San Francisco. “But you will have a lot of irate taxpayers complaining that their deductions are capped.”
Christopher Thornberg, principal at Los Angeles research firm Beacon Economics, said the reduced deductions could slightly weigh down home prices, by 2 to 3 percent, but only on higher-priced properties that have been less affected by the housing downturn.
Under Obama’s proposal, the additional revenue from this and other increased taxes on the wealthy would be used to expand health care coverage, invest in renewable energy and improve education.
Either way we will have to wait and see what happens.
So-CaL A said:
Can i win this argument between tora and dice by saying today is my birrrfffffdayzors?? yay for being 21 finally..Happy Birthday, now you can kill brain cells legally
MasterP said:
I’m done arguing with this.If you can’t see why breaking the law means you get punished I’ll never convince you out of your little rant and flame over wanting to smoke pot all day without risking punishment.
Somehow you’ve twisted this around to comparing legalization of pot smoking to women’s suffrage and minority civil rights. I guess you REALLY feel oppressed that you can’t smoke pot in front of cops.
/thread IMO
I agree, it was one line, I missed in editing that I wish I didn’t put it in there. Bad comparison. But that had nothing to do with my argument, which you completely ignored.
Typical republican, ignore everything, demand people to act one way excluding yourselves, and just pretend you are right. Don’t ask me to post sources to back up my arguments, when your just going to ignore them in the end
torankusu said:
Hey, you didn’t specify if March 17th is the day before your birthday or if the day before March 17th is the day before your birthday. I figured it was the former.CONFUSING
happy birthday well in advance for both of ya.
And maybe I’ll let you win tora, next time we get the server all to ourselves
lol
Guys, there is no reason to start insulting. lol If I’ve been rude to anyone, I apologize. Especially MasterP, since we share polar opposite views on almost everything in life haha.
MasterP said:
What benefits are you referring to? Trying to sell a taxed commodity in direct competition with an untaxed variant or that same commodity doesn’t typically work out well. But hey what do I know? Common sense is never right… Now if you consider a legal way to get stoned a primary benefit you’ll never get your wish with this because your personal enjoyment is not Congress’ primary concern. It usually takes more than that.hmmmm. Ever heard of bootleggers? The people who sold alcohol illegally during prohibition. It was untaxed then. Then we made alcohol legal again, with taxes to boot! All the evil bootleggers became saints, Like Sir Budweiser and St. Arnold. What makes you think marijuana “bootleggers” won’t convert? It’s happened before.
But MasterP, I ask you this, why was it banned in the first place. Or rather, why do YOU think it was banned in the first place. Because compared to our nation’s history, and the history of the world, marijuana has only been banned for a small period of time. It’s been part of society and culture for thousands of years. Thousands of years and has never killed anyone (Directly, as a result of intoxication). You can’t say that about ANY drug, legal or illegal. So we can rule out dangerous, because usually what makes drugs dangerous is how fast they can kill you.
If you actually go back and recount the history, it shows that congress never had any concern for anything, but based their ban on a lie made up by Harry Anslinger. Just 30 years later, congress was ready to decriminalize. There was a committee, led by Raymond Shafer who said it should be so. Then in the 1980’s Reagan claimed marijuana more dangerous than cocaine. And for 20 years, we had a war on drugs that destroyed families, cramped prison systems, increased taxes, and has done everything but stop drugs from flowing in and out of our country. Here is an idea, make marijuana legal, then we can use all that money and resources to bust real evil people for serious *edited*, like crack or methlabs or human trafficking. Sure we do all those things now, but with marijuana off the check list, it makes finding the other real bad guys much easier. It’s only been 80 years, blacks were persecuted for longer, women weren’t allowed to vote for longer, yet we came to our senses. You actually think 80 years of ignorance will hold up?
And my party won’t just tack it on. History has also shown that democrats in Washington were more strict on marijuana than republicans. Probably because they didn’t want the “image” of a marijuana supporter; *edited* social stigma. Clinton put more people in jail for marijuana than any other president. It’s a sad statistic, one I’m ashamed to know.
MasterP said:
Yeah let’s look at all those anti-tobacco commercials, then you go outside and see how well they work. Oh wait, they don’t.I can’t get drunk or cancer from walking behind someone drinking a beer or smoking tobacco. I can, however, get high simply by breathing in second hand marijuana smoke and even light exposure to it shows up in drug screens and takes days to flush.
You decision to ruin your own life can ruin others’ simply by being near them while doing it. Now imagine, if you swapped just half of the people smoking tobacco with pot smokers, there’s no way you wouldn’t get through the day without at least SOME exposure and there goes pretty much all drug screening right there.
Have you even considered the effect this has on other people or do you just care about getting high? Do it in your house, I mean hell it’s not like you’re likely to get caught, just don’t force your life decisions on society. That’s all this is really about.
Oh and Nickname, 2/3 > 1/3.
lol maybe we should outlaw poppy seed muffins, because there are minute traces of opium that can appear if you eat enough. In what part of my argument do I say I want to thrust it into society. I want it legal. But by no means am I asking society to accept it as a norm. Having the right to do it in my home, or in designated bars/coffee shops would be awesome, and more than enough for me. Tobacco is legal, yet isn’t allowed inside most places. Unless, I blow it in your face, or unless you are a weird person and like walking two inches behind someone smoking a joint, you won’t get any trace of it in your system outside. You actually think me smoking outside would cause others to get high….lol suuurreee.
Oh and lets not forget you can intake THC in other ways besides smoking it. So we could easily make some law prohibiting smoking in public places, but there is no way magic brownies could harm you’re precious clean blood, unless you were hypnotized or forced to eat it. Not to worry. Like I said before, sloppy legislation + lies + fictional stigma = marijuana prohibition.
And even if 2/3rd dont support it as your old gallup poll shows, 1/3rd of society would. Does that minority have no say? Kind of hypocritical to use that argument especially since you’re a republican, who always complain about abuse of the majority.
Ephraim said:
I would not support the legalization of weed because I think drugs, including currently legal drugs, are destructive by nature. Also, in my expierience people who openly flaunt their enjoyment of weed usually wind up being annoying wastes of space. Still, if weed were to become legal overnight, it wouldn’t really bother me too much as it seems to be on par with alcohol.If we do keep it illegal, we should find a new way to discourage its use. The whole “just say no” thing kinda fell through.
even if it were to become legal, that doesn’t mean you can’t discourage its use. Look at all the tobacco commercials. All I’m saying is there should be the option, I don’t think the government should have authority over punishing people for health problems, because when you boil it down marijuana, tobacco, and alcohol abuse are just health problems, not some crime against society.
Nickname said:
Also I think the poll should have a more middle of the road response, such as “I dont really care” or “sure, but I still won’t do it”. I hate to say “Hell Yes!” when I don’t support it THAT much.Ron Paul would say HELL YES. lol
I use it because it’s part of my religion. LOL
Temple 420:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV0p9OkZnFs…feature=related
EDIT:
It won’t let me edit my old posts, I was going to add the documentary/comedy “Super High Me” as a source.
check out parts 1-9 on you tube.
Dankst@ said:
it has come to thisLOL. I love that dude. He’s funny in Grandma’s Boy.
It’s a joke to really believe those stereotypes, because that’s all that was, stereo-types. Here’s a better one I think:
and then
Okay so I made a music video with a dancing frog. I used the program Stickman to create and render the video. Virtually everything wasn’t really planned, including the use of the song and frog. This was my very first animation with this program, so the quality sucks, but hope you enjoy anyway.
Song:25 Lighters
Remix by: Z-Ro
MasterP said:
new_rayz, cite your sources. If it’s as harmless and helpful as you claim it should be fairly easy to back it up with government studies and medical research performed by REAL labs.Also, the whole “it’s a nonviolent crime” argument is garbage. There are thousands of people put in jail each year for nonviolent crimes, it doesn’t mean they aren’t crimes. You know doing it is against the law and you do it anyway. Stop pretending that just because “the law is wrong” makes it ok to break the law. Enron execs were jailed for a nonviolent crime. Barely drunk drivers are jailed. Tax evaders are jailed. Drug dealers are jailed. What makes the laws against your crimes so special that you shouldn’t be penalized for breaking them?
You are right, thousands of people are put into jail each year for nonviolent crimes, and that doesn’t mean they are not crimes. But just because it is against the law doesn’t mean it’s wrong. We just recently got rid of segregation, oh iono less than 50 years ago…A black kid going to a white school was considered very wrong, and people who attempted to integrate prior to the “official” change were considered criminals. If that is the case, then you would consider Rosa Parks a criminal because she refused to sit in the back of the bus. I don’t consider Rosa Parks a criminal, even though she broke the law’ just as I don’t consider smoking marijuana a crime, even though you can go to jail for it.
Unlike every single one of those people you just listed, smoking a joint harms no one. Enron execs ruined thousands of peoples lives. Tax evaders harm our nation economically. Drug dealers kill both directly (guns) and indirectly (the more harmful drugs they sell). Yet not all drug dealers are bad. Some of the prescriber’s of marijuana are nationally labeled as “drug dealers’, yet they aren’t killing anyone, but ACTUALLY allowing thousands of people with ache’s and pains to get relief. Alot of people cultivating and growing the stuff aren’t Mafiosos or part of some cartel, but farmers struggling to make ends meat.
Tobacco and Alcohol by the way, kills hundreds of thousands every year. Lets check the Marijuana death toll = 0. Oh look it’s ZERO. T and A are both legal and kill thousands, marijuana kills no one and is illegal. Please explain the logic in that.
You want Sources? fine.
Reefer Madness – Eric Schlosser
this book refers to not only the economic and social affects the marijuana laws have on our nation, but also includes different sections of the black market, including prostitution and cheap labor.
“Health Aspects of Cannabis” – Dr. Leo Hollister
former president of the American College of Neurophychopharmacology and taught at the University of Texas Medical School
Dr. John P. Morgan’s section called “Drug Use and Dependence” in The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy
Debunks almost any horror story spread about marijuana.
Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts – Lynn Zimmer
Points out many of the myths, separates fact from fictional made up stories.
There have been many government studies of marijuana. Just to name a few:
Indian Hemp Drugs Commission 1894- British government exposes the overriding and pervasive powers of contemporary collective denial and moral failure underpinning policies of cannabis prohibition. This was the one most conclusive and thorough investigation of marijuana to date. No other committee since than has gone into as much detail as the IHDC.
National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse 1972- While the Controlled Substances Act was being drafted in a House committee in 1970, Assistant Secretary of Health Roger O. Egeberg had recommended that marijuana temporarily be placed in Schedule I, the most restrictive category of drugs, pending the Commission’s report. On March 22, 1972, the Commission’s chairman, Raymond P. Shafer, presented a report to Congress and the public entitled “Marijuana, A Signal of Misunderstanding,” which favored ending marijuana prohibition and adopting other methods to discourage use. They also found that possession should be decriminalized.
The House of Lords, Science and Technology Committee, 4 Nov 1998 – “recommend that the Government should take steps to transfer cannabis and cannabis resin from Schedule 1 to the Misuse of Drugs Regulations to Schedule 2, so as to allow doctors to prescribe an appropriate preparation of cannabis, albeit as an unlicensed medicine and on the named-patient basis, and to allow doctors and pharmacists to supply the drug prescribed.”
I’ll put up more later, but this should be enough for now.
MasterP said:
So since too many people do it we should legalize it? By that argument murder and rape should be legal.I’ll ask you this then. If it’s such a harmless drug with so many benefits, why has it been banned and publicly scorned for the last 80 years? Why is it that the only people who ever seem to want it unbanned are either non-college educated morons or hippies?
My argument was that it puts more people in jail for a NON-violent crime. For smoking pot. That costs us money. A guy can go to jail for longer and get fired for failing a drug test because he tokes up every other week, but a guy who drinks on a daily basis could potentially kill someone and still keep a job and benefits? How about you stop taking what I say out of context?
And how about you stop stereo-typing. There are way more people that use it than you think, and that aren’t hippies or morons. Like I said, look up Harry Anslinger. It started with the Tax laws, then moved on to the Boggs act, then the whole movement in the 80’s. Every single Congressional Committee that has been given the task of reviewing the drug, has come back with the same answers, that it is virtually harmless, causes no deaths, and should be decriminalized. It’s currently classified as a Schedule I controlled substance, implying that it has high potential for abuse, no officially accepted medicinal uses, no safe level of use under medical supervision. Heroin, LSD, and peyote are all listed under this type. The fact that we place marijuana under the same category as heroin has nothing to do with the drug itself, and was caused by sloppy legislating.
They won’t start openly smoking it in middle schools. Just like kids don’t openly smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol in middle schools. Because we don’t let them. If you can’t control your kid you should never have decided to have a baby. That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. If you want more on the issue, why not look it up, instead of assuming you know everything? Yeah, so it’s been banned for 80 years, lets compare that to the length of time it’s been not illegal? Thousands and thousands of years. With no recorded deaths. Rofl
MasterP said:
99% of it’s use is not for medicinal purposes, and you know it.of course I do. But that means what? It’s less toxic than some foods we eat. I just said thats a good reason, but I also think it should be allowed for recreational use. It’s less harmless than alcohol. waaayy less harmful.
And as far as the current “growers and buyers”. We will have to see when it eventually is legalized. I have a hunch that the big tobacco companies surely have some sort of hidden warehouse where they have boatloads of ganj ready to be distributed on a massive scale. lol The DEA cracks people that get too crazy with grow projects. But there are over a hundred thousand commercial growers that grow in the United States alone. They can’t control anything, they try and stop one house, then three more pop up. It puts more people in jail than any other offense. Which costs us money. Lot’s of money. Money that we definitely need now.
#13 that’s my whole point. It’s time we break that reputation. It’s a reputation built on ignorance, fear, and lies. All started with Harry Anslinger drastic stretch of an account about a guy who axed his family after he supposedly smoked a joint. He used that to pass the first Marijuana Tax Acts back in the 30’s. Then Reagan had to lay the hammer down in the 1980’s. Surprisingly though, democrats were actually more harsh on marijuana than republicans. Probably because they didn’t want to be stereo-typed.
YahooEarth said:
As long as there are similar laws to its use like alcohol (driving, ect.) then I have no problem with it. On a side note…have you guys seen that hbo special about “it” called “One Nation Under Pot” or something like that, and it highlights some people that have medical disorders such as stuttering, or a form of fibrosis and the only way they can funtion properly is while using “it”. Even when they take their prescribed medication from doctors it is nothing like while on “it”…Best reason in my mind as to why it should be legal. It’s medicinal properties have been well known for thousands of years.
manlycaN said:
I dont smoke, but I think too much bad press gets put on it. I think the gov’t could make tons of money off of taxing it and it would create hundreds of jobs for people.hundreds of thousands. And its the largest cash crop, over 14+ Billion a year. Reefer Madness, originally an old anti-marijuana political movie, and the Bogg’s Act were just some of the things that created the current stigma. There’s a book out also called Reefer Madness which talks about that stigma and some of the messed up things that happens to non-violent people who happen to enjoy a toke, we call criminals. Some people who have served time for marijuana have had many of their citizen privileges stripped, including food stamps, while violent criminals are getting out earlier with more rights included. There is some progress being made to dilute the madness which society has placed on itself, less than a decade ago people actually thought it caused blindness and homosexuality. Both false lol.
Ephraim said:
the democrat has a sweet Leather Matrix Jacket. All hes missing is a pair of tinted bifocals. It’s kinda cool how you can’t tell whos who until they say it half way. Stereo types are so mean =(
NoDice said:
lol, nice listi’ll be starting at the bottom and working my way up.
but it’s in no particular order, you might get disappointed when you get to the top
Renton said:
ok so two things, first off…no cheese sandwich –> gangs?
I have always been privvy to the cheese sandwich, and I have never been in a gang, thus I can’t deny the validity of this statement 100%, or any % for that matter. But i’m pretty sure kids aren’t joining gangs due to the lack of cheese sandwiches
secondly,
I completely agree with your ending argument. Being a chef, we learn to use our “leftovers”, called scraps in the industry. Meat scraps are bagged up and frozen or refrigerated, everything has a shelf life, and it’s not one day. Granted the food that is out and presented to students cannot be legally given out again after 4 hours. But most places throw away a ton of food a year, I think the actual stat is like 3 tons (ie. 6000lbs). Which most can be made into soups, appetizers, beef tips… the list goes on. Most places think hiring an actual chef for their measely cafeteria lunch line is a cost that isn’t worth it. While your food cost savings as well as waste and labor are reduced dramatically. A trained chef will cut you costs 15% on food in a general cafeteria setting. Now i’m not talking about eating tuna tartar, and prime rib, it will generally be the same food, just prepared more efficiently, utilizing scraps, and cutting down on waste. Sometimes you gotta spend money to make money…
HIRE MORE CHEFS
*After June I will available as a personal chef, please use my email address in my profile for inquiries
no cheese sandwich –> neglect = one of the key reasons why kids join gangs, because they are neglected. Lol it was a bull*edited* scenario I made up, but like i said, I was kind of arguing just to argue
NoDice said:
haha, i hustled my lunch in middleschool.I had a Balance points thing where you just type in your student id and it was like free majic money (at the time). so ne who, my buddy would alsways give me $2 cash he had for lunch and i would just buy his lunch (like $3)
looks like you were the one getting hustled. rofl
