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To be totaly honest the stats are just a By-product of the way I play. I bait and camp and do other *edited* like that cause I want to, not cause it gets me mad scores. The scores are just a bonus.
It looks like the voting is pretty much over. Awps are already unrestricted, and that has seemed to work fine. The auto clearly lost if we count each set seperatly, but if we average the poll we might set it to one auto per team. On a side note, Ive given up on using the auto as it has a point midifer of .80 so screw that.
It might help if we had another admin or two who played at odd times or was on frquently since the majority of the admins all tend to be on at around the same time period. I can’t off hand put an exact time down as Im lucky if I know what time it is right now but we go long streches with no admin around. And im too lazy to go fire up irc and let them know crap is going down on the server.
A few comments of minor intrest…..
Not being critical of any side, even if it might seem that way.
This is all personal thought created after wandering through bazilions of pubs for years. Take it with a grain of salt.
(imna be using Kuros as my example of a high ranked admin, no offence intended at any point.)
First, When something important like a map change is in question, it is typicaly left to the highest ranked admin on the server on most servers. If Kuros was on, then it makes sence to leave any map changes up to him since hes got the Ultimate Power around here.
Second, When a vote comes up, its almost always a land slide for Yes, regardless of whats being voted on. Go and try it sometime, just make random votes, option one wins 90% of the times. Most folks don’t bother to read the votes or pay attention to em, they just mash buttons.
Third, If the map is totaly debalanced and swapping a few people won’t do, sometimes you can just wait it out and the fortunes of the teams will eventually be reversed through natural causes. However if players really were starting to spec due to the debalance, they should be kicked. There are thousands of other servers out there, and bagillions of other players. Very few of either can be considered unique.
Fourth, An admin arguing with another admin is always a Bad Thing. When in confentation, hand the problem to the highest ranked admin on. They have that rank because of thier skill/fairness/intelligence as an admin and can often solve the problem in a decent manner acceptable to the majority.
Fifth, Admins arguing publicly, whether with another admin or a player, is a Bad Thing. Players should not argue with admins in any case, because on a CS server, admins are pretty much God. Admins and Players, If they do have a problem with an admin private messages are by far the best course of action. No one wants to back down in front of someone publicly and forcing them to do so will create ill will. Don’t hang your dirty laundry in public.
Sixth, Who cares what the majority think? Most of them will be players who are just wandering through. As I said above, players are not hard to come by. Neither are servers.
Seventh, Even though I am making this post in this thread, the thread falls into the dirty laundry category. It probably would have been best to simply private message Kuros or some other high level admin and let them make any nessesary posts. Its like that one Dresden book said. Even if you win over the masses of people, if you *edited* of the one guy with a vote that counts, your still screwed.
I can’t think of anything else, I hope all of this helps, if it dosen’t yall can’t just ignore it as more of my random gibbering.
~Killty-Chan
Edit: Zomg, took too long, gxti stole my thunder.
Edit More: As a thought, why not create a system of support admins. What I mean is you could have people who only have limited admin powers when no Full admin is on. That way you could hand out SA status to regulars, without worrying about them destroying the server, but there would always be some sort of admin on during peak times.
Having a prone postion in CS would be the absolute best. You can sorta fake it in a few spots, like behind the bar in militia. If you crouch and go under the shelves it squishes you down another 1/2 your size, so your view is like a foot off the ground. And if they add prone they oughta add bipods too. that way we can mount a scope on a para, deploy it, and commit truly horrible gheyness. Hmmm…….dust 2, double doors……deployed para…..yum………
~Killty-Chan
Personally, i think that if your going to restrict awps the number each team is allowed to have is based on the team’s wins. So if one team has a score of 10 and the other is at 5 the 5 team can buy awps, but the 10 team can only pick em up. Or something like that. That way it prevents one team from commiting total slaughter by awp, while still allowing awps to be used. And it allows those who are truly good with the awp to pick em up and hang on to em. In that scheme the only restriction is on purchasing em, not having em so if you manage to kill an awper and reach his body you get a prize. Every time we set it to 1-2 per team some moron noob buys the awp real fast and then dosen’t kill anything before he dies and gives his awp to the other team.
~Killty-Chan Doll
I made my comment before all those random people came in and starting voting for 1 awp per team. And the auto is doing way better than I expected. I thought it would not break 2 votes for un-restricted. Right now though, if you average and do those sorts of things its looking like 2 a team, which is cool, since newbs just drop em, and folks who are good with em keep em, so it works out. Anywoo….the number of votes is pretty small. Its not really a good sample. Heh, I oppose the results, and i try to invalidate them in one post, im a ninja. My point being….im not entirly sure what it was.
That and most of my arguments had nothing to do with the number of folks who opposed the awp. It was more concerened with the quality of folks opposing the awp. Based on the quality over quanity thing. Obvoiusly.
~Killty-Chan – Late At Night
The Freeman is totaly right. Once the server gets up into the 25+ players the lag starts getting awful retarded and it makes it incredibly hard to play. And sometimes we are managing to finish a couple rounds in the warmup time, which is a bit excessive.
~Killty-Chan
The direction of the poll isn’t suprising at all. If you go back and look at who all argued for what, you will notice that there were only a few, very vocal people arguing for restrictions. Most of the folks who would vote for restrictions are the newbs who only visit the server once or twice and are never seen from again. (notice the “most” part, if you are voting for restrictions, and your not a newb, you don’t need to feel flamed by this. )
~Killty-Chan
Jagr, my posts might have said the exact same thing as your posts, but your posts were simple staments. All you did was say, “This is what I think.” My posts, rather than simply stating my oppinion, were attempts to persuade others to my point of view. Plus people seem to think that the more you write, the more imporatant/relevant/inteligent your posts are, and since I enjoy rambling on it works out pretty well for me.
~Killty-Chan
So….The big issue is when everyone has an AWP? I can see how that would be really annoying. But when you think about it there will only be an over abundance of AWPs for a round or two. After a few rounds the other team will get some AWPs, then you will have a round where everyone has an AWP, and almost everyone dies. After that most folks won’t bother to buy another AWP because if you didn’t do well with it in the AWP fest, you are gonna go looking for a diffrent gun. In this case you could actually consider the AWP a self-limiting weapon. When there are too many everyone ends up dead, and then no one has an AWP. The only real exceptions to this are where the teams are horribly stacked and one team is just massacaring the other, but in that case it problay wouldn’t matter what weapons they are using.
Long story short, the AWP itself limits how many people can use the AWP. If its an AWP fest, just wait a round or two, and things will have calmed down quite a bit.
~Killty-Chan
Yall actually palyed the game that came with UT2k4? Everyone knows you only buy it to get the alien swarm mod. Most awesome mod ever. They were making a version for steam, but the last update was 27th June 2006, so i think they might have crashed and burned or something.
~Killty-Chan
Yes, many people do *edited* and moan about the awp, but the then people *edited* and moan about everything. “OMG that guy flashed me!”, “No fair, He shot me with a deagle from 30 feet away!” “That guy just poped out and shotgunned 3 of us!” etc etc etc. Somehow the awp just got set up as the scapegoat for all this. I suspect that it got this status because it is unforgiving of mistakes with its incredibly slow rate of fire and complete lack of close in combat ability. It is not a friendly weapon the first time you pick it up. Almost every other gun can at the very least be sprayed with a chance to kill. Compared to the awp, even the Scout is capable of a “spray” altough i use that term losely here.
The awp often gets refered to as the golden gun of CS, and with good reason. For any of yall who don’t know or don’t remember the Golden Gun was a pistol used by an assasin in a james bond film. It only had one bullet, but it was a very powerful bullet, almost like a tiny frag gernade. The assasin who used it was known to never miss, which is why he needed only one bullet.
It is the same concept with the awp. Lets say you have a chance to kill a foe. With a p90, your chance is spread out over the length of your spray, lasting until one of you dies or escapes. The same applies to all the other guns. Even the scout is similar because despite its bolt action the time between bullets it barley more than a second or two and a player is capable of firing multiple times at a single foe. The awp is diffrent, its bolt is slightly slower. The player wielding it is slowed by its wieght. A reload takes ages. With the awp, the player has taken all of thier chance to slay thier foe, and put it into a single shot. The same player may well kill you with the awp, or a colt, or an ak, or a p90. They may even kill you without you managing to hit them back. But that dosen’t annoy people as much as the awp. The reason is simple. The person has said, “I bet I can kill my opponet with a single bullet.” For someone new to the awp, the chance of them pulling it off seems near impossible, while those skilled with the awp can manage it quite frequently.
Because of this the awp has turned into some kind of elite weapon in the minds of many. A weapon beyond the powers of mere mortals, and only a select few can use such a weapon without being driven insane. I admit, no one ever says that, but if you watch the conversations in servers about the awp, thats pretty much what they say.
The awp is a weapon that requires more skill than any other weapon to be used well. Any moron can get a kill or two with an awp, by killling the other morons, but to kill many players or to kill good players requires either a great deal of luck, skill or a combination of both. However! Just as the AWP requires a great deal of skill, if you have that skill it rewards you for it proportionaly. I can understand why people would not like the awp, it allows a player to condence an entire fight into a fraction of a second, but if you understand the awp, then you can deal with that and come out of it alive.
My point is, the AWP is a very diffrent weapon, and because it is diffrent it is singled out, but instead of simply tossing it out like last week’s garbage give it a chance to prove itself.
I understand that full un-restriction is not likley to happen, but allowing just one or two AWPs per team seems like a balanced way to go about it. That way there is no real reason for compliant, since it is only one AWP, and if you truly despise them, you can simply not go near it. And that will allow the AWP to continue to function as a part of the entire game, keeping the balance of weapons that has made Counter Strike so popular throughtout the years.
~Killty-Chan
Friends, countrymen, fellow Counter-Strike players, Lend me your ears for I come bearing grave tidings! This is something that some of you will rejoice at, and some will weep over. Weapons have become restricted. I speak not of the ever popular AK or the Colt, but of the AWP and the Auto. Weapons which all of you know well and have come to love and cherish! But these weapons have been STRUCK from the server! But why? you may ask. And i will answer. It is because some people see such weapons as a threat to the established order! They think that these weapons are too powerful and have no place in the game we all love so much.
I come here today to tell you that such is NOT the truth! The AWP, while powerful, is not a weapon that anyone can simply pick up and slay vast armies with. It requires great skill and dedication to be used properly.
Many people stop when they hear this and say “But it will kill me in just one bullet! That is not fair!”
So I go to the one who wields the AWP, and ask him, “My child, Do you think the awp is too powerful?.”
And he says “No, it is a balanced thing.”
And I ask, “But how can this be? Many people say the AWP gives them no chance, that is simply kills them all.”
And he says, “Ahhh, a simple smoke gernade could blind me and make my AWP useless. The AWP is slow to fire. You say many came to you to ask you to remove the AWP, but they all came to me, one at a time. When I use the AWP, i can not gaurd behind myself, or even to the sides. It is a simple matter to defeat an AWP, but no one is willing to try.”
And I ask him, “How did you come to use the AWP?”
And he answers, “I was killed by one who used the AWP many times.”
And I ask him, “But did that not make you hate the AWP?”
And he says, “No, it taught me to love the AWP, for just as you may strike one down with the AWP, one may also be striken. The awp will not garuntee victory, it is simply the weapon I prefer. I can not help it if others are so skillless they must remove anything that is greater than them.”
So I go back to the people who first came to me.
And I say to these people, “My children, Did you use your smoke gernades?”, And the people say “No, I did not.”
And I ask the people, “My children, Did you try and avoid the AWP?”, and the people say “No, I did not.”
And I ask the people, “My children, Did you flank the AWP?”, and the people say, “No, I did not.”
And then I ask the people, “My children, Why did you not use the AWP to fight back?”
And the people give no answer, just hang thier heads in shame.
And I ask the people, “My children, you made no attempt to defeat the AWP, you made no attempt to learn the AWP, and yet you come to me and say ‘It is too powerful, make it cease to exist!’ I think perhaps that it is not the AWP that is lacking, but you!”
My point here is, the AWP is an easy weapon to beat, its just no one ever tries, they just ban it from the server whenever they see it. Same with auto. The auto gets flamed as a weapon that any idiot with no aim can pick up and kill hundreds with. Not true. The auto is just as capable of getting spray and pray shots as any other weapon, which is what happenes when any random idiot picks it up. Yes, the auto is incredibly lethal in a skilled user’s hands, but so is any other gun. Removing the AWP and the Auto simply because you personaly can’t fight back agianst them is no “balancing the game” or “making it more fair”, its simply avoiding any difficulty you encounter instead of dealing with it. Grow some back bone or balls or guts or whatever it takes and confront the things you have trouble with. If you are never challenged, you will never grow.
~Killty-Chan
Making pub folks listen to you is easy. You just have to use a great deal of verbal abuse. And the mic. Or even better, both at the same time. For some reason being insulted makes people follow your oders, never understood why though. Ive gotten pubbers to charge into awp kill zones like lemmings before. although it might have helped that i had a score of like 17/5 and everyone else was 2/7 on my team. Controlling a team just takes some tough love. Orders must be accomponaied by insults. Every time they do anything wrong, let them know just how it, in great detail. While this may sound cruel, and downright mean, I can get an entire team of 10+ totaly random people to go exactly where i tell them to round after round, so there has to be something about it that works. Im sure someone here has been on a team where ive been ranting at them near constantly so they would know how it works.
~Killty-Chan
P.S.
You can also cheat a bit if they are all piled up around a door. Just say the next room is clear(dosen’t matter if it is or not) and they will all rush in to act like they were in there while the fighting was going on. By the time they realize you were lying they will have killed all the defenders, so its a moot point anyway. Very effective when one awp is holding off 10 people through fear alone.
The only really laggy person I have seen on the server was Rocket_G and he was only at 270 something and it seemed that there were no problems with him. There really isn’t anything wrong with the way the ping limit is now. The bots are just like all bots, they are like bloodhounds, stupid beyond reason but once they catch site of your head its game over. Some map voting is good, voting constantly on everything blows. FF is really fun when its on, as long as you don’t have tards randomly spraying and killing thier team mates all the time. As long as a server is a pub, and has a high number of random people coming in FF isn’t such a hot idea. I used to play on one server that could was pub and could do FF just fine, but it was because the admins had a finger hovering over the slay/kick/ban button. If FF is on then the admins really need to start hitting hard on offenders or some moron will frag the whole team and spawn and other such crap. Locking to 1st person view for specing is, in my honest and humble opinion, incredibly annoying. I don’t wanna be stuck watching some moron crouch jumping a some tiny hidden camping spot with the bomb while the whole CT team searches for him. More maps are good, seeing new things excericises the brain. Makes CS actually have a real life benifit. Plus its fun!
~Killty-Chan
The main reason for the whacky prices, besides the obvious fact that f1 gets the ak/m4 is that many servers with DWP restrict the auto and/or the awp so the prices of those will come down. Some servers also ensure that you have 16000 at all times so you can purchase anything regardless of price, which will throw things out of kilter. Added on to that is the actual calculation system for new prices.
-Warning, Detailed Explination Ahead. If you already know how DWP works this will be boring for a bit-
Basicly it takes the percentages of how much money was spent on what to increase or decrease the price on items. This means that as an item is purchased more the price goes up. As the price goes up, each purchase of the item will mean a higher percentage. For example, before DWP to get an AK it would cost you 2500. Everyone wants the AK so lots will be bought. For simplicity’s sake lets say 20% of all the money spent in a hour on Aztec is on AKs. That means that the AK should increase in price by 20%(Its not actually equeal like that since there is the possiblity for things to decrease in price, which would be impossible if the % was equeal to price increase, since you can’t spend negative money.)
-Start explination of why DWP sucks-
This is where the system breaks. The AK now costs 3000, an increase of 20% from 2500. Despite this price increase the AK is still the most desired weapon. People are still buying the AK just as much as the were before! But now, because of the higher price the total percentage of money spent on the AK is 30%! The process continues until eventually everyone is simply saving money waiting for thier chance to buy an AK, which after a few more repititions, will cost 16000. And then the next week rolls around, Now the AK costs more than a player can aquire.
-Explination of full problem-
The short version of what im saying is, as the price for items increases it will create an exponetinal curve of increase, instead of a balance like Valve stupidly expected. The curve is supported by servers that give 16000 to all players, allowing a seemingly absurd price to be supported well after the bounds of logic and rational have been breached. The problem is further compunded by servers that restrict weapon purchases of the AWP/Auto, which happen to be some of the most expensive weapons in the game. It is even further compunded by the impression among many casual players that the Para, the most expensive gun in the game, is a useless gun. If the Awp/Auto became unrestricted on all servers, the Para gained a bit of respect, and servers only give you the basic 800 as starting cash it is possible that the prices will stabilize a little. However, the fact remains that there are certain weapons that are prefered by the players in general and it is inevitable that those weapons become absurdly priced as time goes on.
—-Conclusion and Solution—-
DWP sucks, turn it off.
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Congragulations if you read the whole pile of stuff, if you just skipped to the end…..you got the point at least.
~Killty-Chan
If you haven’t seen me you can just type “top10” and find me. The awnser to that is simple, create a stabilize the vote command. That way if there are some tards acting up and sending us constantly back dust 2 or something you can just start cancelling votes. You could also not advertise the RTV command. Most people don’t bother trying RTV or mapvote commands unless they want off of the current map really bad.
~Killty-Chan
Oh! This is the topic for me! It makes sence to restrict the weapons at some times. The auto should be totaly banned from Assault, because people like me get an auto on a T and kill a bazzilion CTs and the whole server emptys. Those kinds of situations. Personally, I think it is a better idea to simply restrict the number allowed per team if it is becoming a problem. Most of the time people gripe about the auto and awp constantly because they are restricted almost everywhere and people start feeling pampered by the fact that it takes multiple bullets to kill them. Personally I think all weapons should be totaly unrestricted and if you can’t deal with it, tough cookies, but in the intrest of keeping the total number of people on the server up there are a few times when the number of awp and autos should be cut down. Awps and autos really on become a problem when a large majority of people have them, or when the number of people on the server is small and that is the time when they should be restricted a bit in number, although a no point should a weapon be totaly out of bounds. After all, what’s the point of having an awp and no one to shoot with it?
~Killty-Chan
As the random person who walked in off the street from very far away I shall offer my most delectable opinion. Map voting at the end of each map is horrible as the server ends up trapped on dust and aztec and office and assault. However adding the rock the vote ability would be dilightful as sometimes everyone is tired of the map and we want to change it but we have no way to go about doing it. The idea here is that the map rotation would stand as long as everyone could stand the map but if we hit dust(either one) for the bazzilionth time it might be nice to have the option to get it changed. By only having RTV and not a vote at the end of each map you can ensure that a certain level of motivation has to be present in order to initaite a map change. That would seem to me to be the best way to give you an efficient way to change the map should it prove needful as well as preventing constant voting for maps which would be quite annoying. It might also help if some other maps were introduced to the rotation such as port, nuke, tides, and multiple others.
~Killty-Chan
