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pinkcs said:
Hannah: Heh, yeah we should all just use the same gun, that’ll make the game more enjoyable for everyone… fail
I’m a lil confused on the same gun deal..
maybe just dumb.. but thats no suprise
I really don’t care what happens to the modifiers, Kuros changed them and if the shotgun gets changed back then every single gun needs to go back to their default.
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I really don’t care what happens to the modifiers, Kuros changed them and if the shotgun gets changed back then every single gun needs to go back to their default.Thats nice… how about an explaination or reasoning for that statement? I mean if you don’t care like you say, why should anyone take what you say seriously?
Its the same for you pink, you think you could run our servers and our club better than we can, but yet we have two servers that are in to top50 in the nation, why should anyone take what you say seriously? I mean, no one at WCU does, much less the executives.
The point for the statement is that it doesn’t matter to me whether the modifier gets put back to its original or whether it stays at the .5 it is at now. If the modifier on the shotgun is changed back to what it is, I believe the modifier of all of the weapons should go back to what they were, aside from autosniper possibly. Of course, you probably disagree with this seeing how you’re an avid awp hater. Good thing we don’t take what you say seriously.
I think that to crucify pink over this is absurd. I believe that a lot of people will agree with me when I say Pink is a voice of reason and/or voice of opposition in these forums. I’m guessing he’s a very smart man from his posts. He might not even believe everything he writes, but he voices the lesser side for the sake of everyone. I love reading pinks posts, he brings up new angles, most of which are very relevant and he’s never offensive towards anyone. I think he does not deserve one bit of criticism, whether it is trying to present another side of a ban, a well reasoning on maps or other things asking for comments, or this thread. I think he presents his opinion in full and does a very good job. He thinks through his posts, as I should probably do more, and reasons everything. He has posted many times he thinks you guys do a *edited* good job of running the servers, but anytime he has a suggestion or voices an opinion different from the crowd you guys nail him? I don’t understand, take some of the comments and criticism to mind, and think maybe he has a point. Think through things, then don’t yell at him, but reason.
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it? – what was wrong with the modifier at 1?
off topic for a moment.
Hmmmmmm, even if pink was an admin would he really have that much power to do whatever he wants? No.
Why the *edited* yall keep bashing him, he is just a voice who differs from you and being that no one in the history of the world has ever been right a 100% of the time why are we being so *edited* hostile to someone who is making suggestions for what he sees as the benefit of the community. He isn’t Hitler telling the Weimar Republic that its democracy is corrupt, evil, and base. He is one of us who appreciates the community. I don’t think he is right most of the time, but *edited* why even have a forums if we aren’t going to at least appreciate the spirit by which they operate, that of discussing things. Cut him some slack please.
EDIT: as to what renton said, no I don’t think he personally deserves any criticism, but his ideas and suggestions sure do.
not to ruin this or anything, but just raise a pertinent question – should changes like this be considered admin only, or are they changes that should be talked about before going into effect? Are point values and such, things that should be given a voice by the community? I’m not badgering the admins here, just wondering where the line is drawn. Either way a reasonable answer will quench my wondering mind.
The decision was made before Brian was elected as CL by other admins and executives.
Brian said:
off topic for a moment.Hmmmmmm, even if pink was an admin would he really have that much power to do whatever he wants? No.
Why the *edited* yall keep bashing him, he is just a voice who differs from you and being that no one in the history of the world has ever been right a 100% of the time why are we being so *edited* hostile to someone who is making suggestions for what he sees as the benefit of the community. He isn’t Hitler telling the Weimar Republic that its democracy is corrupt, evil, and base. He is one of us who appreciates the community. I don’t think he is right most of the time, but *edited* why even have a forums if we aren’t going to at least appreciate the spirit by which they operate, that of discussing things. Cut him some slack please.
EDIT: as to what renton said, no I don’t think he personally deserves any criticism, but his ideas and suggestions sure do.
We “bash” him because instead of being constructive with his suggestions and criticism he tries telling us how to run the servers and the club. He goes about his suggestions and criticism in a negative way towards the club and those that run it, especially when he openly throws insults at executives.
Actually I use negative and positive type inflections to convey power to some points and to push gently on others. I am human though, and do feel a lot of personal negativity to certain server elements when its called for, I try and keep the tone of those comments though within acceptable standards – and I’m not forum banned yet so I must be succeeding atleast for now.
Erm, the WCU community.. I see this as an open discussion forum, and use it as such, even when its been insinuated elsewhere that this isn’t the case when it comes to my posts. The “we’re being told we’re doing something wrong – Attack Attack!” scenario needs to be rethought though, I know its nice to ‘cut loose’ on comments that arn’t favourable, but in the end its potentially the server you prize so highly that could lose out. Bare in mind, a lot of my sharp edged approach has become anticipation of such stinging defensive comments (to make them more difficult to make without positive explaination), the more friendly we all are to each other the less those sort of tactics become requirements.
Renton said:
not to ruin this or anything, but just raise a pertinent question – should changes like this be considered admin only, or are they changes that should be talked about before going into effect? Are point values and such, things that should be given a voice by the community? I’m not badgering the admins here, just wondering where the line is drawn. Either way a reasonable answer will quench my wondering mind.IMHO, things like this should be “admin only”. Specifically for the reason that if faced with the fact of turning points down on a certain weapon, people are going to be against it. Less points? NOOOO! It’s a balance issue, and much like the balancer, takes some work to get right and some experimentation. All that we can ask is that everyone be patient and work with the us constructively after a direction has been decided upon.
Aye, if anything I think we should be having these discussions, just with a bit less personal polemics, not only will we be able to hear each others arguments a bit clearer it makes the whole environment nicer to be in. On that same account I know I should probably be doing some apoligizing, not say this should be a love fest either though
Aye, I have to agree with Liam there, I’m of the suspicion that when it comes to balancing issues, it shouldn’t exactly be left up to the community, not every single person in the community is going to come to the issue with the welfare of the whole in mind.
Liam said:
IMHO, things like this should be “admin only”. Specifically for the reason that if faced with the fact of turning points down on a certain weapon, people are going to be against it. Less points? NOOOO! It’s a balance issue, and much like the balancer, takes some work to get right and some experimentation. All that we can ask is that everyone be patient and work with the us constructively after a direction has been decided upon.Now this is a decent and very good post. I agree with you, but do you think there should be warning? Or notice that it’s being considered? Or rather just a post that it has been updated? I’m not trying to cause problems, I’m trying as I’ve seen pink do many times, make this a more structured server. Can’t do everything different ways, there has to be some consistency. If you guys would have changed it, put a locked thread on saying the reasons why it would balance out play more on the server, you can bet your *edited* I would have been a little more accepting of it. I wouldn’t be happy still, but it would have been a more logical thing to do. I’ll still accept it if you guys will post a few good reasons of how it will balance out play.
Its difficult to work outside of the community with decisions that are supposed to be for the benefit of the community.
The reasons that groups started to use discussion forums was because the viewpoint of the community that a leadership serves is important, it just needs to be pruned, tended and in some cases matured to meet the quality that the group aims to attain.
Sometimes this can mean flat agreement or flat disagreement, but by allowing concise and conscientious discussion of the reasoning why you can sway the opinion at large in your favour or atleast away from negative rebukes. And there are rare occasions sometimes even when you flat disagree with your community and they’re not acting in their own best interest you have to let things slide on a little or perhaps take another approach.
Discussion allows deep incite into the needs, desires and required approach the community needs which only gives the leadership more control and more leverage with less textual bloodshedding.
/agree with pink
also..i agree with liam/brian on the issue of the admin only vs community discussion…most of the admins are there to make the server better based on their own opinions of the situation.
If the community disagrees, come on the forum and protest your case. If you argue or express your point well enough, it might make them change their minds more than just screaming “ZOMG CHANGE IT BACK NOW!!!!” all day on the server.
The final decision has been made. We sat for over an hour deciding on these modifiers. These are final and non negotiable.
very good, nice to mix tings up…
but whats with the “non negotiable.” haven’t even tried these in the server and got any real time feedback. thats one think our “CLUB” has, always open to change for the community. Bring people to campus to discuss these changes and to become one of the elite crew
NoDice said:
very good, nice to mix tings up…but whats with the “non negotiable.” haven’t even tried these in the server and got any real time feedback. thats one think our “CLUB” has, always open to change for the community. Bring people to campus to discuss these changes and to become one of the elite crew
shhhhhhhhhhh!!! It took long enough to decide on those.
Can reasons for all the changes please be put up? I’m not debating anything, just like to see the thought process.
haha I can’t believe yall resorted to this. I see what goes down when I’m away. Pathetic. Why don’t you lower the AWP more too since any body that can hit a object can get a kill with this gun. Way more whoring on the AWP then anyhwere near the shotty. You guys just need to stop crying about this gun.
Not saying this is necessarily bad, I can kinda preceive the reasonings behind the different point .mods and I’m going to take a guess that the P90, M3 and Para have all suffered because they’re seen as “ghey” or “noob” weapons, rather than because the changes do anything dramatic to improve or fix the server?
Ok, to the best of my memory:
The ak and m4a1 are set where they are because they are mainstream and do not in our opinion require as much skill as the galil/famas. That being said, we set the galil/famas at 1.2 to compensate for this. They are slightly harder to use and thus should be more rewarding.
The awp is set where it is due to it’s 1 shot nature. It has actually been moved up substantially from where it was before because unlike the previous person in charge of stats, I do believe the awp requires a good deal of skill to truly be successful with.
The deagle has been knocked down due to it’s 1 shot kill tendencies as well as to keep some manner of control with points gained/lost on deagle5.
The rest of the pistols were left at hlstats defaults because we felt that they were at a fair modifer already.
The autosnipers were crippled because it takes nothing to be good with one.
The hegrenade went up because of the rarity of the hegrenade kill as well as the decrease in warmup time.
The knife went up because we felt it should.
The para and shotguns went down because the shotgun is broken (no accuracy lost when jumping as well as over powered) and because Brian wanted the para at .8. 100 bullets? Jesus Christ…
The smgs went up to 1.1 because they are slightly harder to use than the rifles. The ump went up more because it’s terrible.
Flashes and smokes were not changed.
The p90 was lowered because of the 50 shots of *edited* near no recoil at close range. Too many times we’ve seen teams get rolled over in a hallway with a p90.
The autoshotty was left alone because like the ump, it’s terrible.
That’s the main reasoning for these modifiers. Hope that clarifies.
the reason it is dumb to make the shotty a .8 point weapon is how weak it is at range. This is the reason its harder to use than a rifle, you can spray a rifle or burst for range, you don’t have that option on a shotty. And to act like its a noob gun retarded, almost no “noobs” use shotties. There are a few of us that enjoy them and you are just raining on the parade.
so renton, if you owned a server, what would your points be?
i stated that b/c their is no “perfect” way to do this. I think they did a hell of a job, this pushes people to play using different weapons.
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