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You know I have noticed it takes about 5 seconds longer to make a post now (After you click “Post”).
EDIT: Of course that just posted instantly..
Nickname said:
actually I remember when I was looking for a new monitor that the samsung T260hd does seem to have some pretty severe input lag, not unlike what Lemm is talking about. Not sure what causes it but it is a real thing, just never experienced it firsthand I guess.
I should point out that on a game like blackops the issue would compound because you would be battling both the input lag and the internet lag, which is probably why you even noticed this. If you were to play say the campaign it would likely be much less noticeable.
I agree.. it all adds up just some more than others.
Internet lag appears differently though because with internet lag I can see myself shooting / knifing the other person, but instead I died because the other persons shot registered with the host before mine did. This makes me so mad.. It really keeps me from using a mic a lot because I start ranting. I have to turn the thing off.
Nice, it’s an awesome game. I haven’t played it a whole lot lately. I collected cars for a while. If you want I can give a cool one – they have limits on how many cars you can send / the value of the car but I have some gift car tickets that transfer really easy.
MasterP said:
I certainly wouldn’t spend $2700 on a 55″ TV, that’s for sure.
Are you dead set on not getting an LED LCD?
No, now I just want a good tv… It doesn’t have to be 3d but it has to have a low input lag.
That being said the tv I was looking at is also the midrange..
Amazon prices
50ST30 Low $1085
50GT30 Med $1394
55VT30 High $2700 (they don’t sell the 50″ but it exists)
It has a lot of good reviews from avsforum and other sites… and confirmation of good gaming..
Maybe I don’t know what to do.
I just checked the wii.. with New Super Mario Bros. Wii. I am noticing the lag but it’s a lot harder to notice. NSMB does require less reaction time than black ops, but you can really notice it when you’re trying to time jumps. I believe it’s about the same. I don’t really know a better game to test with other than guitar hero- but even that game requires calibration on almost all hdtv’s to work properly.
I’ve read different threads that say that Panny’s GT30 models are great for gaming (which is the one i’m looking at). Unfortunately I can’t find anything specifically for the PZ750 but rather the 550 and 950. From what I’ve read the 550 is crap on input lag but the 950 is good.. I’m guessing the 750 took the low road being the in-between model.
The point is Input Lag exists and it varies by model and by manufacturer. So don’t get in a bind like Lemm did- research the tv you are looking to buy with different forums / interwebz to see what the Input Lag is / how good it is for gaming. A lot of people recommend taking your gaming console / setup to the store when you are going to buy it.. Seems like a bit of a hassle to me.
MasterP said:
Lemm said:
MasterP said:
Btw, in terms of input sources, different resolution doesn’t mean anything. The vast majority of TVs use the same input board and picture processing for HDMI and component input. Even if the Wii only runs at 480i, if the TV truely is the problem it’ll also have the “input lag” because it’s signal will be going through the same board, same chips, same post-processing as the PS3 on HDMI.
That’s not true. If the tv’s native resolution is different than the source, extra picture processing is required to re-size the image. Google running a nes on 1080p tv.
NES doesn’t use component input. It would use either coax or RCA, both of which have resolution upscaling enabled by default on the TV. Since no modern gaming devices use it, the upscaling hardware isn’t going to be fast because it doesn’t need to be. On the NES, even on older 1980s-era TVs there was a delay between when you pushed the button and when mario jumped. This has nothing to do with the TV and everything to do with playing a console running on a 2 MHz processor.
Take your TV apart and look for yourself. I’ve yet to see a TV where conponent and HDMI weren’t treated the same. HDMI has to go through a couple filters to seperate everything out but in terms of the actual picture itself, it’s identical.
As to resizing, look in the Nvidia control panel and you’ll see options relating to HDMI-TV picture scaling. EVERY device scales a 1080p output differently and not every TV displays the same 1080p signal in an identical manner. TVs automatically scale and adjust every input, even 1080p, to match what its chipset thinks 1080p should be. Perfect example, I’ve yet to get my ION’s rendition of 1080p to perfectly match an HDTV’s 1080p resolution, I ALWAYS have to manually adjust it on the PC side and end up with a weird resolution. The TV takes this weird resolution and displays it regardless. Can I tell a difference in 1080p movies? Nope. Any “input lag” in MW2 or L4D2? Nope.
I mean really, if scaling created lag problems don’t you think it would be a problem with PC monitors too? I’ve never heard of scaling lag on computer monitors. Change your PC resolution to something really weird and you’ll notice that the monitor scales it to full screen and keeps on trucking.
Quote:
Part IWhy do HDTVs lag on video games?
HDTVs typically only have one or two “native” resolutions. A set’s native resolution is the resolution that it displays on the screen. This means that sometimes, the HDTV must “scale” the resolution you input in order to display it.
On regular, non-HD televisions, there is only one native resolution, which is 480i (240p). Whenever you play a video game on a standard definition TV, the game console always outputs 480i/240p and the TV displays it as 480i/240p. No need for any scaling, so response time is always normal and accurate.
However, because HDTVs NEVER have 480i/240p (Standard Definition) and usually not even 480p (Enhanced Definition) as a native resolution, that means that any video game console we have that can’t output a High Definition signal is likely to lag on any HDTV display. It isn’t that it is impossible to scale an image with no lag; HDTVs simply put the emphasis on image quality, which takes some time to process, rather than speed. Some newer HDTVs now come equipped with a “Game Mode” to speed up the scaling process and reduce or eliminate lag on the set. You can read more about “Game Mode” later into the FAQ.
I’ll see your AVS Forum writeup and raise you your TV’s own instruction manual. Flip to the PC input section and you’ll find a table of natively supported resolutions. It’ll be more than one or two and 640×480 is most definately one of them. LED LCDs almost universally support 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p, both with and without scaling.
Just try an XBOX360 or Wii on it, I think you’ll notice a difference. Enable game mode if you think it’ll help but disable all the other extras like MPEG balancing and noise filtering.
You’re speaking of “Supported Resolution” not “Native Resolution”.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution
Quote:
Some commentators also use this term to indicate a range of input formats that the display’s input electronics will accept and often include formats greater than the screen’s native grid size even though they have to be down-scaled to match the screen’s parameters (e.g., accepting a 1920×1080 input on a display with a native 1366×768 pixel array). In the case of television inputs, many manufacturers will take the input and zoom it out to “overscan” the display by as much as 5% so input resolution is not necessarily display resolution.And yes, up-scaling has to be done for 720p / 480p sources even though they are “supported” because of this “Grid”. Obviously some tv’s handle it better than others. If they were passed straight through they would take up a smaller portion of the screen not being stretched.
I will try out the Wii for you, but even if you are right and the Wii shows no lag -the TV is no good to me if it plays the Wii correctly and not the PS3.
This is what I want to get instead:
http://flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1300800238
Quote from same article:
Quote:
Input lag is lower than on the 2010 models, and was measured to 18-25 ms. The level of input lag depends on the circuits enabled and IFC adds to input lag. Input lag on Panasonic GT30 is also lower than on most LCD/LED models. This also means that GT30 is great for console gaming.Another test of input lag on same set showing ~24ms:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1166196 (First TV shown)
It’s about $300 more than the tv I currently have / am returning, but it’s also slightly better viewing. Seems to be worth it to me since with 2 tv’s I don’t have to fight my gf (as much) for gaming time.
MasterP said:
More “input lag”, picture quality takes a hit, they’re more expensive, and the circuit boards are more prone to failure and more expensive to repair/replace when they do.
Sources are Amazon, Google, and common sense.
More “input lag” – this may be true but I haven’t seen anywhere that flat out says this.
Picture quality only goes down when you have 3D enabled. Without it, it displays the same as any 2D tv. That is an argument for 2D vs 3D, not the actual tv.
And the money issues are the cost of new technology.. buy a warranty.
MasterP said:
Btw, in terms of input sources, different resolution doesn’t mean anything. The vast majority of TVs use the same input board and picture processing for HDMI and component input. Even if the Wii only runs at 480i, if the TV truely is the problem it’ll also have the “input lag” because it’s signal will be going through the same board, same chips, same post-processing as the PS3 on HDMI.
That’s not true. If the tv’s native resolution is different than the source, extra picture processing is required to re-size the image. Google running a nes on 1080p tv.
Quote:
Part IWhy do HDTVs lag on video games?
HDTVs typically only have one or two “native” resolutions. A set’s native resolution is the resolution that it displays on the screen. This means that sometimes, the HDTV must “scale” the resolution you input in order to display it.
On regular, non-HD televisions, there is only one native resolution, which is 480i (240p). Whenever you play a video game on a standard definition TV, the game console always outputs 480i/240p and the TV displays it as 480i/240p. No need for any scaling, so response time is always normal and accurate.
However, because HDTVs NEVER have 480i/240p (Standard Definition) and usually not even 480p (Enhanced Definition) as a native resolution, that means that any video game console we have that can’t output a High Definition signal is likely to lag on any HDTV display. It isn’t that it is impossible to scale an image with no lag; HDTVs simply put the emphasis on image quality, which takes some time to process, rather than speed. Some newer HDTVs now come equipped with a “Game Mode” to speed up the scaling process and reduce or eliminate lag on the set. You can read more about “Game Mode” later into the FAQ.
Source: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=558125
MasterP said:
Nickname said:
Aren’t the 3D tvs like way worse for lag than their non-3D counterparts?
3D TVs are way worse at alot of things than their non-3D counterparts.
Like what… source?
Nickname said:
Aren’t the 3D tvs like way worse for lag than their non-3D counterparts?
I don’t know if that’s true or not, but I would imagine it shouldn’t make a difference if 3d is turned off.
Further evidence:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1166196
Scroll down until you see 2011 models and the LG PZ550. It shows a lag of 100-117 ms. My model is the PZ750.. one step up, same generation of tv’s.
I have the wii hooked up to the other tv. I don’t play any FPS on the wii anyway, so I don’t think I would be able to tell. It’s also a different resolution and a different port (which both would affect the lag in different ways).
It’s not an accurate comparison, but I will hook it up when I get home.
I’ve already called for them to come pick the tv up anyway. I’ll do more research before I buy another tv. However, if anyone is looking for an awesome deal on a good tv (it really does have a great picture) that is horrible for fast paced gaming.. Amazon has a great deal on a LG 50″ 3d plasma with two pairs of glasses for around 1000 with free shipping.
From what I’ve read the LED LCD’s of the same line this year have the same problem.
I’m guessing it’s only a 100ms lag. Whatever it is – it’s unnoticeable to me to anything except gaming. Even then I only notice it on certain games that require a quick reaction time like CoD. However; I play those games a lot more than others.
What why? I’ve tested it on 2 tv’s in my apartment already.. One works fine the other has the lag.
I’m going to try to get my money back while I hopefully still can.
MasterP said:
Is the PS3 the only thing you’re having trouble with? If so have you tried resetting it like you described in the OP?
PS3 is only game system that I currently play.. and yes … I did try that. It’s only meant to reset video settings (in case you have it locked in hdmi out and you want to reset it). You can do everything I did in the system menus.
It’s not the ps3. It’s funny because my 32″ LG LCD plays great but when it comes to a higher end model the lag is a LOT higher.
Literally the only difference between my previous setup is the tv.
Lucky for me Amazon has a great return policy on HDTV’s … FREE RETURN SHIPPING W00T!
Everywhere I have looked called it input lag, but whatever I am talking about the processing time.
AFAIK I have turned everything off but I’m planning on seeing what service mode yields me as far as features I can disable tonight.. (I doubt anything) I also managed to find the unlock code for the ISF calibration.. so I will see if I can turn anything off that way.
If I still can’t get anything better out of this tv.. I think I will go with http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-VIERA-TC-P50GT30-50-Inch-Plasma/dp/B004MME76K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311017157&sr=8-1
$1345 3D Plasma. Supposed to only have around 15ms – 30ms lag.. the best set I’ve read with any serious testing done to it. It’s also supposed to have great picture quality.
BTW plasmas have < 1 ms of latency as apposed to lcd’s .. it all processing time.
They all have input lag…
It’s just how much. From what I’ve read, the good ones only have 15ms-30ms — but they are also not the best quality tv’s for viewing movies.
It also makes a difference which input you are using although I assume you are using HDMI.
Do you happen to know which model they have?
Removing the receiver produced an unnoticeable difference.
It’s the tv. Apparently this years models of LG’s (Both LCD and Plasma) are really bad for input lag.
LCD LED TV’s may be getting better in quality, but from what I’ve read Plasma tv’s still beat them as far as gaming. (This coming from the forums at avsforum.com )
I was able to tweak some more settings in one of the ISF modes turning off color correction, edge correction .. stuff like that and setting the aspect ratio to “Just Scan”.
I still don’t think I will be happy with this…
From what I’ve read Panasonic makes the best gaming tv’s this year.. but I’m open to anyone else’s input because I’m thinking of returning this TV.
rainefardreamer said:
raine picked up gt5
*edited* is awesome
can i race lemm?
hellz yeah.
When did you get a ps3?
yousillyGoose said:
Adam Faulkner said:
get something you dont like .. so when it breaks you dont feel bad.
they all break. well most do. mine did
I have had like 3 cheap (~$40) sennheiser pairs that I have broken. I had a steelseries 5h V2 that I tripped over the cable and broke the 3.5mm plug. I bent the plug back and rma’d it (that broken set was my fault). The replacement lasted a while. I had it sitting on my pc case (~2ft off the ground) and it fell of on to a hard wood floor and snapped in half. I should say, though, that it wasn’t the first dive the headset took. So, that break was on me.
It is very sad when they break
ha I broke 3 sennheisers the same way…
They must manufacture them to be trippy.
MajorMajorMajor said:
Lemm said:
Its
It’s
… same thing
I’m applying to Clemson for the Grad School. They don’t care what form of Its you use.
THEY ALL LURN GUD FRUM THEAR
I see what you did there. Clemson cares..
Clemson cares.
Video: http://www.toplessrobot.com/2011/07/impressively_less_super_mario_bros.php
^^^ This guy beat Super Mario Bros. with a total score of 600pts (Lowest Score Possible)
Pretty crazy.. he had to wait until 000 second were left to tag the flag pole on each level.. (600 pts were from flag pole)
