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I’d kinda like to see there be a team penalty as well for people going out and killing hostages, so that the activity is highly discouraged. The team penalty will be assessed to the team of the person who kills a hostage: -1 point to the team. This is in addition to -15 points to the person who kills the hostage.
vote and/or discuss here.
I say no to the team losing points, but possibly upping the individual point deduction to maybe 50 to get the point across…
Having a team penalty wouldn’t be good since you’re punishing everyone
for one person’s stupidity. I mean it is pretty darn bad if they need to kill
hosties to win. Maybe a heavy point reduction, or maybe even more from
admins. I hope these are excluding accidents, since i know people tend to
throw random nades on a whim at anything.
Well think of office for example then, if the T’s are camping out, they’re probably holding it out in the projector
room; quite the last stand place. From what i see, people throw flashes and grenades in gratuitous portions,
inside, bouncing off walls, pots, flowers, each other. Others tend to panic when flashed, and just spray everywhere.
Yeah of course, it’s a great solution if everyone just aim’d better, but that won’t happen.
I think it would be good because the purposeful hostage killing would get that person yelled at by their team-mates. Especially considering I’ll modify the message to tell who did it.
Secondly, if thats not going to happen then I am all in favor of kicking the penalty up to 50 points loss.
I’m opposed to an increased penalty as well as penalizing the team. Sometimes, yes there are bad eggs who decide to be douchebags. Firstly, if someone is killing hosties, everyone is yelling at him anyways; why make people even more angry because the guy is on their team? The team has nothing to do with it. And, if someone is killing the hosties, they obviously are pretty immature, and thus won’t care about their rank. The only sure-fire way to keep people from PURPOSELY killing hostages is to kick after 2 have been killed or so. Even then, accidents happen, which is why I’m opposed to an increased penalty. I’m pretty sure as a CT I’ve misfired and killed a hostie, and as a T I’ve been chasing a rescuer and tried to shoot past the 3 hostages following him and it went all wrong. Imagine if it’s 1v1 and the t is about to clutch, except he would have to kill 4 hosties to get to the CT. -200 points? No thanks, I’ll take the loss. People are always going to bet on CT if its 1v1 if there’s a big point deduction for hostie killing; the T may as well sit back and let him have it (assuming they’re a stat *edited* like me).
I say it’s totally up to the situation and admins. If someone sees a guy go up and purposely shoot the hosties, kick him saying “No hostage killing”. No warning. That way, the point gets through. If they come back on and keep doing it, ban him for a day or so. Maybe even keep a list of people who have killed hosties; enough 1-day bans and they’re done, though I think it’d be hard to come back every other day and keep doing it..
Basically, I see this as an admin’s responsibility, not the point system’s. If it happens to be 3v3 or so and no admins are on, the guys on his team can vote him out. If not, and the guy is really doing it excessively, I’d get a demo of him doing it over and over. THAT is worthy of a ban – it’s not much different from hacking, doing something that gives you an advantage over other players (the cts MUST kill all the t’s), and nobody likes it.
So no, don’t make it a point thing. Sorry for the rant? I’m not sure how it got so long.
That’s what she said.
Personally, I think that the -15 points is a pretty big deduction so far. I mean, in office, which is about the only cs map we play anyways, to have killing hostages do any good you have to kill two of them anyways. Thats -30 points to the offender, which is pretty stiff. Also, just taking me as an example, I try not to kill hostages, but if terrorists are hiding close to them or among them, sometimes they die. I guess I would make a horrible SWAT team member, because I don’t even think about hitting the hostages if a terrorist is shooting a me, I only think about killing him.
As far as penalizing teams go…. I think its fair, first it puts pressure on that person from their teammates, secondly -1 point is not that much and since rescuing/holding hostages is the point of the mission (think do the objective), if a hostage dies that team who killed them actually failed and should be punished.
A solution to remedy some of this. Make killing a hostage worth -15 points per hostage, make rescuing a hostage worth +15, -1 for a team, +1 for a team. -5 for all hostages dead to the team who killed the last one, +5 for all hostages rescued to the CT team. Do the same thing with the money. I do think its also a good incentive to have the hostage killer lose all their money as well.
A side note…. Liam, is there anyway for admins to track who kills the hostages? That way if one person is repeatedly killing them, we can take action. A simple message that says “Pink Monkey #16 has killed a hostage!” in chat would be good.
AngelEllaine said:
Well think of office for example then, if the T’s are camping out, they’re probably holding it out in the projectorroom; quite the last stand place. From what i see, people throw flashes and grenades in gratuitous portions,
inside, bouncing off walls, pots, flowers, each other. Others tend to panic when flashed, and just spray everywhere.
Yeah of course, it’s a great solution if everyone just aim’d better, but that won’t happen.
The point, i think, is to make the game realistic and if you were going to rescue hostages you would never throw a grenade in the room where you even expect them to be.. Its not a matter of aiming better. Even if there were T’s camping there to shoot at you when you came in you should figure out a way to draw them out or something or flash them before you throw a nade when there are people’s “lives” at risk
Thats all
VBloodLustV said:
The point, i think, is to make the game realistic and if you were going to rescue hostages you would never throw a grenade in the room where you even expect them to be.. Its not a matter of aiming better. Even if there were T’s camping there to shoot at you when you came in you should figure out a way to draw them out or something or flash them before you throw a nade when there are people’s “lives” at riskThats all
That’s totally the perspective I was thinking as well, I know this game is not real life, but just suppose…
And 16, I believe Liam just posted saying he was making something so that it says who killed the hostage.
Monkey, you make good points, except I think that we’re giving the CTs too much credit here. If the CTs rescue all the hostages, that’s saying that the whole CT team gets 9 pts and the Ts lose 9. Nobody is going to want to be T, since it’s basically a lose-lose situation. Again, I think that if we keep taking points away, this map is going to eventually get taken out of the rotation because it won’t be fun any more. However, I do like the losing money thing for killing hostages. Maybe not all of it, but definitely 3000 or so each.
Bloodlust and yahoo, good points though. Besides, how often do nades kill hosties?
Liam, is there any way to add a stat to the HLStats page that has Hostages Killed? That may help track it.
But yeah, if we keep taking points away, this is going to turn into deagle5, which we just agreed to reform with gun votes.
OHHH YES TAKE OUT OFFICE!!!! TAKE IT OUT, TAKE IT OUT, TAKE IT OUT!!!
My computer does not like tha office…
Renton said:
Monkey, you make good points, except I think that we’re giving the CTs too much credit here. If the CTs rescue all the hostages, that’s saying that the whole CT team gets 9 pts and the Ts lose 9. Nobody is going to want to be T, since it’s basically a lose-lose situation. Again, I think that if we keep taking points away, this map is going to eventually get taken out of the rotation because it won’t be fun any more. However, I do like the losing money thing for killing hostages. Maybe not all of it, but definitely 3000 or so each.Bloodlust and yahoo, good points though. Besides, how often do nades kill hosties?
Liam, is there any way to add a stat to the HLStats page that has Hostages Killed? That may help track it.
But yeah, if we keep taking points away, this is going to turn into deagle5, which we just agreed to reform with gun votes.
I can stop point loss on deagle5.
in all this i think ima have to change strategies for desperate situations… to win in the past i’ve been known to rescue the two less guarded and pass the other two, and upon rescuing them i’d radio in for a hit on the last two… since i’d rescued two the ct’s would be credited a win…
Okay Liam, that’s cool; I actually haven’t noticed the point loss, I’m just aware of it because of the forums. Do what you will with deagle5, the only things I’ll ask for are:
A) no point deductions for killing hosties
gun votes on deagle5C) Yahoo’s right, this A)
C) thing is funFalcon said:
in all this i think ima have to change strategies for desperate situations… to win in the past i’ve been known to rescue the two less guarded and pass the other two, and upon rescuing them i’d radio in for a hit on the last two… since i’d rescued two the ct’s would be credited a win…
Heh. We have generally frowned on that in the past since it is cheating.
Renton said:
Okay Liam, that’s cool; I actually haven’t noticed the point loss, I’m just aware of it because of the forums. Do what you will with deagle5, the only things I’ll ask for are:A) no point deductions for killing hosties
gun votes on deagle5C) Yahoo’s right, this A)
C) thing is funRenton, Renton, Renton, you have much to learn young padawan…
a ) you must put a space after the letter to avoid the ‘b’ becoming a smiley face…
b ) Falcon, you should be banned for at least a week for that offense…
c ) gun votes on Deagle5 would be fun, and also for SK3 for maybe an extra 10 minutes on either…
d ) Yahoo GET OFF THE INTERNETZ
ps, 300 posts *edited*es…
YahooEarth said:
Renton, Renton, Renton, you have much to learn young padawan…a ) you must put a space after the letter to avoid the ‘b’ becoming a smiley face…
b ) Falcon, you should be banned for at least a week for that offense…
c ) gun votes on Deagle5 would be fun, and also for SK3 for maybe an extra 10 minutes on either…
d ) Yahoo GET OFF THE INTERNETZ
ps, 300 posts *edited*es…
pps. 1600 posts..
sorry, renton, i should have clarified, i wasnt saying that if the ct’s rescue all the hostages, the t’s should lose points, its just free points to the cts
no… there should be no point reduction for the entire team for someone killing a hostie.. it has no effect whatsoever on the teams performance and stats…
and this is what you should be considering… are the stats an accurate measure of a players skill… and someone else killing a hostie has no effect on that
also…
I think the point reduction of 15 points for one hostie is enough.. especially when ct’s use them as meatshields and u accidentally kill one.. I’ve done this a number of times.. but I’ve gotten a lot better at not killing them.. still happens every now and then though..
I think we just need to lay down the hammer moar on people who kill hosties.. we certainly have enough admins
i think taking away individual points is great so people don’t kill them to win a round but the entire team it isn’t there fault so they shouldn’t lose points for it especuially when it is someone who just kills them for the heck of it and doesn’t care about points
Yeah 16 I got you, I just read it over again and saw what you meant.
We could have an auto-slap of like 25 hp for killing a hostie? That way it’s not abused when there are no minnows* around.
*minnows = admins
You need to have punishments that are enough to discourage them even if a “minnow” is around or not.
I think they have a thing in the server where it kicks/punishes based on if a player as accumulated X amount
of hostage deaths. Perhaps put the cap to 2-ish for a “accident forgiveness” and do something afterwards, like
kick or a temp-time-out.
Then again, some CT’s may abuse this and thus use Hostages as meat shields, which then it would be really
effective… And hostages in real life should never be used as a shield ^^
i always use the hosties as meat shields…i kill them too if i can to accomplish the objective, it’s part of the game, like the awp. If i take a 30 point deduction and a money loss for a team victory, then i should not face other punishment. It only really matters if the t’s kill the hosties so that the objective is invalidated… i don’t see what all the *edited*ing is about, it only happens a few times, and if the t’s see the person who does it, they can tell the admin and the admin can react accordingly, but if i see a ct using the hosties as meat shields on italy down the long hall, or on office killing 2 hosties to finish the round, i’m not going to bust their balls for making a smart choice, i’m not gonna bust the t for accidently killing a hostie because he was trying to hit a ct…*edited* happens.
rainefardreamer said:
i always use the hosties as meat shields…i kill them too if i can to accomplish the objective, it’s part of the game, like the awp. If i take a 30 point deduction and a money loss for a team victory, then i should not face other punishment. It only really matters if the t’s kill the hosties so that the objective is invalidated… i don’t see what all the *edited*ing is about, it only happens a few times, and if the t’s see the person who does it, they can tell the admin and the admin can react accordingly, but if i see a ct using the hosties as meat shields on italy down the long hall, or on office killing 2 hosties to finish the round, i’m not going to bust their balls for making a smart choice, i’m not gonna bust the t for accidently killing a hostie because he was trying to hit a ct…*edited* happens.You are correct. However, shooting two hostages just to score a team win is against the rules and not allowed. Whenever I see this done I warn the offending player and if it happens again I kick then and progress accordingly.
The objective of the CT’s is to rescue the hostages, not score a team win.
but it is ok if a t is shooting a ct and the ct is a *edited* and hiding behind the hosties to ACCIDENTLY kill 1 or 2 hosties? we aim to injure them more and would rather do that and not kill them to just get a ct right?
clava said:
but it is ok if a t is shooting a ct and the ct is a *edited* and hiding behind the hosties to ACCIDENTLY kill 1 or 2 hosties? we aim to injure them more and would rather do that and not kill them to just get a ct right?You can’t help hitting a hostage sometimes. While we would prefer that you aim better, it is easy to kill a hostage while trying to take out a CT. I did it the other day when killing two CT’s on Office, I killed both hostages they were hiding behind. Accidents happen.
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