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It was brought to my attention last night that some people and execs are not very happy with all of the power the Alumni Advisers that do not go to this school anymore have. So, to discuss this (and some good news I have about our money situation)we will be having an Emergency Meeting this coming up Thursday, October 22nd.
As stated in the title description, please do not move this thread b/c this meeting will be open to the public for voting. Thank you and please keep the flaming/trolling to a minimum.
Yea, there was a pretty big discussion about it last night at the Saturday Mini-LAN. So I figured we should all get together and talk about it.
Kaz-Ka said:
It was brought to my attention last night that some people and execs are not very happy with all of the power the Alumni Advisers that do not go to this school anymore have.
no offense to liam, but everyone remember him going a.w.o.l.??? imagine that but times a billion.
the alumni are the life force of the club, hope the result of this meeting doesn’t *edited* them off to much. =/
Like having LANs with internet access? Like having those giant switches? Like having game servers? Like having the forums? Like having 60 free Steam LAN accounts?
Without alumni, none of that happens.
If you’re planning on doing what I think you’re doing this is a very bad idea. Remember that no one on campus has even attempted to learn what we do to keep things going so when something does break, the forums are just gone. The stats tracking just goes away. The website, poof, becomes no more.
The fact that Kaz-ka would even consider this notion is, well, sad.
MasterP said:
Like having LANs with internet access? Like having those giant switches? Like having game servers? Like having the forums? Like having 60 free Steam LAN accounts?
Without alumni, none of that happens.
If you’re planning on doing what I think you’re doing this is a very bad idea. Remember that no one on campus has even attempted to learn what we do to keep things going so when something does break, the forums are just gone. The stats tracking just goes away. The website, poof, becomes no more.
The fact that Kaz-ka would even consider this notion is, well, sad.
make that times a trillion.
And for the record, because I’m sure butt-hurt trolls are behind this, I only banned about 3 accounts. The rest were banned by other admins, one of which you’ll never be able to revoke access to the servers so if that’s the motivation behind this you’d be better off directing that pent up frustration at something a little more constructive.
Also important to note is that the webmaster gave approval before any banning took place.
First, josrocket is the alumni advisor; if you have a problem with him, talk to him.
Second, there are only 2 alumni that really exert power on the club: Adambomb and MasterP. Adambomb started the club, is the webmaster, and is probably the club’s single largest resource for about anything. MasterP keeps the game servers going when nobody else has even tried. I don’t see anything wrong with what they do, unless you refer to MasterP’s attitude, which can come off a little strong.
The fact of the matter is that WCU does not allow Alumni in clubs, much less hold ANY position inside of said club. I’m assuming the servers are WCU property… in which case if we are investigated, as JAS was, it could end with complete removal of all servers, funding as well as a fine. If you really care about the “club” and not having just your own CS servers, why not help willing members learn how to take the admin position for the servers?
Theres nothing about Alumni using the facilities provided by the club, it would not be like you were being run out.
Well if that is the case, I am sure all the alumnis will gladly delete their accounts and stop being a part of the club. BTW you might want to amend the constitution and remove the alumni advisor position because that is also in violation of said rules.
BTW, the servers are property of Residential Living, not SGA or whoever you think they are property of, so we only lose them if Residential Living says so.
I guess everyone is forgetting that alumni have always helped the club in this manner. If someone else is actually willing to learn everything needed to keep the club running, we would gladly give up our responsibilities.
Nickname said:
Well if that is the case, I am sure all the alumnis will gladly delete their accounts and stop being a part of the club. BTW you might want to amend the constitution and remove the alumni advisor position because that is also in violation of said rules.
BTW, the servers are property of Residential Living, not SGA or whoever you think they are property of, so we only lose them if Residential Living says so.
I guess everyone is forgetting that alumni have always helped the club in this manner. If someone else is actually willing to learn everything needed to keep the club running, we would gladly give up our responsibilities.
Way to overreact. You do not have to “delete your accounts” or “stop being part of the club.” It just means they are not allowed to hold an “office” or “office like position.” As for the servers… either way they are WCU property…
Just for the record, I was not there for the Mini-Lan, so before you start flaming me I did not cause this. I’m merely explaining the situation as I see it and from experience.
Well then the voting rules need to be checked; Adambomb was voted in as Webmaster and while somebody else was voted in as PC Vice President, he has not ever gotten the info or accounts or anything from MasterP to take over the position. These positions require a lot of time and work and somebody needs to do them, alumni or otherwise.
I am pretty sure that alumni maintaining servers for the gaming club is not against any university regulations…
Nickname said:
BTW, the servers are property of Residential Living, not SGA or whoever you think they are property of, so we only lose them if Residential Living says so.
Both Residential Living and IT know that alumni are still running the servers. They don’t care because they’d rather we do it than people that have absolutely no business running a $12,000 server in a multi-million dollar datacenter.
I have offered several times to teach anyone how to do anything on the server within the power their position allows. Kaz-ka physically said at the meeting that I’d teach anyone how to do anything. This notion you’ve invented that anyone here is unwilling to teach is a bold-faced lie.
Btw, where did you read that alumni can’t be in leadership positions because I’m pretty sure the majority of greeks and a good number of clubs do this all the time.
This is horrible.
First off, MasterP did not abuse his powers, as he got permission from the Webmaster to ban those three accounts. They were troll accounts created to harass members, primarily MasterP. If anyone had the justification to ban them, it was Kip. But, that isn’t really what this is about. This is just an extremely petty way of punishing Kip (and by extension, all alumni) for having opinions contrary to the current circle of execs. I am also very uncomfortable with the amount of influence Josh had over this nonsence, as I believe he is being motivated by a half-decade old grudge against the alumni. If administrative access is taken away from the alumni, it will be a great shame on this club.
I cant wait to here what this is about. Do you mind letting us know before the meeting or are you trying to drop a fast one on us?
ManlyMoose said:
The fact of the matter is that WCU does not allow Alumni in clubs, much less hold ANY position inside of said club. I’m assuming the servers are WCU property… in which case if we are investigated, as JAS was, it could end with complete removal of all servers, funding as well as a fine. If you really care about the “club” and not having just your own CS servers, why not help willing members learn how to take the admin position for the servers?
first question is why is this brought up now? This has never been an issue before, for years. I’m not saying you are the one to ‘snitch’ on the club, but the way you describe it someone could easily completely destroy the club with a simple phone call. Threats like that are just uncalled for (again im not saying you are the one doing the threatening, but hypothetically speaking).
The knowledge and work they provide are all voluntary. Do you really think people would want to take on the daunting task of learning everything it is they know? I know i wouldn’t And to the point where they can effectively manage and run the inner workings of the club as well as it is run? To me, this transition people are asking for would be a complete mess, and it would take a long time to pass on the info.
why can’t people be happy with the fact that everything is provided for them, free of charge, and time. These guys don’t have to be doing this, and their effort makes wcugaming.org a much much more enjoyable and functional place.
MasterP said:
Btw, where did you read that alumni can’t be in leadership positions because I’m pretty sure the majority of greeks and a good number of clubs do this all the time.
Article 4 (I think) for club formation states that all members need be either a. Full time students, b. Part time student (such as a senior on their final semester) with permission from the director of the SGA. Continue down to the next one for electing officers, it states that club officers must be a member of the club. It does not specifically state that server/forum admin is or is not an office, probably because this was not a problem when the by laws were stated. From the current tracks that the SGA has made recently if we were investigated they would either say it was implied or amend the by laws.
Anywho, moving on. Let’s leave this discussion for the meeting shall we?
That’s a pretty slippery slope because that would mean like admins for the CS server would be considered officers and would need to be students, meaning we would have almost no admins for our servers at all…
Also you may want to refer to the posted rules regarding use of these forums
http://www.wcugaming.org/forums/index.php?/topic/10808-posting-rules/
Nickname said:
That’s a pretty slippery slope because that would mean like admins for the CS server would be considered officers and would need to be students, meaning we would have almost no admins for our servers at all…
lol times a trillion isn’t stretching the foreseeable demise.
in fact, it’s probably an understatement.
edit:
sorry about the flames guys. I’m done.
Of note, I am posting my opinions now because I will be unable to participate in teh meeting (will be at the UNC v. Florida State game, look for me the game will be on ESPN)
ManlyMoose said:
Article 4 (I think) for club formation states that all members need be either a. Full time students, b. Part time student (such as a senior on their final semester) with permission from the director of the SGA. Continue down to the next one for electing officers, it states that club officers must be a member of the club. It does not specifically state that server/forum admin is or is not an office, probably because this was not a problem when the by laws were stated. From the current tracks that the SGA has made recently if we were investigated they would either say it was implied or amend the by laws.
Can you post a link so everyone else can read? If it’s like everything else SGA writes there are loopholes everywhere.
Btw, if you’re worried about SGA caring, think again. SGA and this club have such a long history of not getting along that they don’t even bother us anymore. I wouldn’t worry about SGA, their rules change everytime their officers do and if we catered to the whims of each and every administration I’d have even less hair and Adambomb/Kuros/Bitey would be completely bald.
ManlyMoose said:
Anywho, moving on. Let’s leave this discussion for the meeting shall we?
How about we discuss this now because at the meeting we will be ignored.
Also when you do this we lose the CLs for the CS16 and CSS servers, basically the only things keeping the server occupied right now. As no one on campus cares about them they’d die in less than a month, then again so would the forums and website so I guess it wouldn’t really matter anyway.
Alumni dont worry, you will be heard, we will have this going on over IRC at least (Id like to get something a little better for this so any suggestions would be nice). And the reason that I am allowing this is because its not just one or two people that are mad/concerned about this, its quite a few people. And to be fair, I think they should be heard alongside the Alumni.
Say what you want about me in this but I’m remaining neutral, I wanna hear both sides to these concerns.
could this be held over some sort of voice chat for the reason irc meetings take WAY to long and phone calls don’t include everyone.
I propose steam chat b/c they have a irc like chat, as well as a voice button. Pretty sure most people have steam and wont require dling stuff. and its as simple of a system as one could possible get.
Just a proposal, it really would be nice if this was considered
see our chat/voice room at http://steamcommunity.com/groups/wcugaming
thanks
You guys need to relax nobody is attacking anybody,recent events have made it clear that the current execs are not in control of the website, servers, ect…we have become too dependent on the Alumni and aid of people outside of this school…I speak for the club when i say alumni like adambomb, nickname, and mitch are very important and we dont want you guys to be sore over this…The point is, despite it not being allowed for people who dont go to the school to have any kind of power in the club, we need to tie up loose ends that are a risk to the sites security. There for all people that no longer attend the school should not have the ability to ban accounts, change code on website, delete posts, and they certainly should never have passwords and what not to access main control over the website. Only students should have these powers.
This would result in all old alumni memebers to lose access to various things, but this by no means that the alumni cant make suggestions, contributions, and continue to help. It will always be welcome. We just need the students to hold all positions and power. This also means we need to have students taught how to do the jobs that the alumni currently still do.
It is as simple as this and nothing more quit blowing things out of proportion please.
I am, like Kaz-Ka, remaining very neutral on this issue.
Since I’m a relatively newer member of this club, I am slowly becoming aware of how badly our relationship with SGA has gone in the past.
Now that being said, I think that why Kaz-Ka and josrocket are pursuing this so actively is because our relationship with SGA is getting a lot better, especially after we (the gaming club) saved their bacon when their band cancelled on them (and there was a LOT of fun to be had. I know, because I was there instead of the meeting that was happening that night).
Kaz-Ka has been really working hard on repairing and rebuildimg the relationship with SGA, and I hope that you alumni can at least give him credit for that. He’s not only one of the nicest guys in our club, but the fact that the relationship with the SGA is actually improving is a testament to how much effort Kaz-Ka has been putting into it this semester.
I too would like to hear what both sides think.
BJ
josrocket said:
You guys need to relax nobody is attacking anybody,recent events have made it clear that the current execs are not in control of the website, servers, ect…we have become too dependent on the Alumni and aid of people outside of this school…I speak for the club when i say alumni like adambomb, nickname, and mitch are very important and we dont want you guys to be sore over this…The point is, despite it not being allowed for people who dont go to the school to have any kind of power in the club, we need to tie up loose ends that are a risk to the sites security. There for all people that no longer attend the school should not have the ability to ban accounts, change code on website, delete posts, and they certainly should never have passwords and what not to access main control over the website. Only students should have these powers.
This would result in all old alumni memebers to lose access to various things, but this by no means that the alumni cant make suggestions, contributions, and continue to help. It will always be welcome. We just need the students to hold all positions and power. This also means we need to have students taught how to do the jobs that the alumni currently still do.
It is as simple as this and nothing more quit blowing things out of proportion please.
Who here has the experience to replace us?
Can you code PHP and CSS? No? Then you have no one to replace Adam and Raven.
Are you a monster at database queries? No? Then you have no one to replace Liam.
Can you code SM or have years of experience with gameservers and Windows 2003? No? Then you have no one to replace myself, Nickname, Lemm, or Adam37.
Btw, when you revoke our admins and the database dies in a month you’ll just be screwed. Once you cross this bridge there’s no going back because we won’t come back to save your asses when the forums magically die or a gameserver crashes and won’t turn on.
Josh, is this really about SGA or about your grudge against the alumni? Someone told me you were more involved with this than it appeared and your reply above pretty much confirms that. You need to drop this grudge. You were elected to represent the will and wishes of the alumni so why are you now advocating the exact opposite of what our wishes and desires are? If you can’t fullfill you duties you need to resign from your position and let someone who’s actually willing to represent us take that position.
Btw, there is no risk to site security. The security policies for off campus access are to the letter of what the campus server security director has mandated. What we’re doing has been discussed with him and he’s thinks it’s ok.
Also, I’m still waiting for a link to the SGA rules you guys are talking about.
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