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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090330/ap_on_bi_ge/gm_wagoner
So yeah about *edited* time he leaves. I mean really come on how do the stock holders keep this guy in there when he had like a 85% drop in GM stocks….I know that alot of you dont like the bailouts and well neither do I but there are some companies that we cant afford to let go under at this point in time. We need to create jobs not lose em or we wont get out of this recession.
No company is too big to fail just like no government is too big to be overthrown. At the rate we’re going I see both points being proven within the next 5 years.
MasterP said:
No company is too big to fail just like no government is too big to be overthrown. At the rate we’re going I see both points being proven within the next 5 years.ummm how do you figure the government is going to fall? As for the GM thing I think at some point they need to go under because then they can start all over again and that is exactly what bankruptcy was made for but at this point in time it would do alot more harm then good….what I dont think you understand and again I could be wrong but most people think its just GM that will go under but they forget the hundreds of specialty part shops that supply to GM and that is where the real damage will be done. To many people losing job is not a way to get out of this bad economy. We gotta make jobs and promote spending not cut back and take jobs away…
If GM can’t stabilize with the billions of dollars we’ve already given them they’ll never be able to. Their business model is too many decades old and they are obviously unwilling to change it. We can’t keep giving them money hoping they’ll change, they aren’t going to. The American taxpayer can’t be expected to subsidize the auto industry the way it still subsidizes Amtrak.
As for the government falling, there’s only so much of this bull*edited* the American people will take. The foundation of this country is starting to crumble and Obama is doing damage that will take decades to fix, if some of his changes are even reversable at all. He’s already got another trillion plus dollar stimulus package in the works and when you couple that with his healthcare package he’ll executive order through it’ll break the backbone of the American taxpayer. China is already taking a hard look at their future investments with us and is about to stop buying our debt. We may very well go bankrupt as a nation, especially if he continues this FDR garbage.
I agree with MasterP on the auto bailout. The auto industry in the US had a chance to leapfrog the competition a couple of decades ago but they couldn’t hold onto the top spot. Giving more money to companies like GM and Chrysler is useless. Obama needs to give more money to NYC! $2 bus/subway fee going up to $2.50 in June?!??!! WTF!!!!!!!
d2.sticky-icky said:
I agree with MasterP on the auto bailout. The auto industry in the US had a chance to leapfrog the competition a couple of decades ago but they couldn’t hold onto the top spot. Giving more money to companies like GM and Chrysler is useless. Obama needs to give more money to NYC! $2 bus/subway fee going up to $2.50 in June?!??!! WTF!!!!!!!Yeah lets give more money to wall street so AIG can screw around more when the money. Pro going to a 13 mil retreat is arizona and iv been to the place they stayed at its not that nice. I dont think you all understand the basics of economics…..take jobs away and then people dont spend which guess what is exactly what got us into this mess in the first place because peoples ARMs adjusted and they didnt have money for anything anymore. The best way to get out of all of this is to fix the housing market and its probably the only way. Housing market caused this and it needs to be fixed its the standard on determining how people are doing financially. Cry more that you have to spend an extra 50 cents for a crappy subway while other people dont have homes.
Well obviously the auto industry in the US didn’t innovate well. Its their fault that they focused on SUVs all this time. Their business strategy failed big time. I thought we were talking about GM and the auto industry man…you brought up Wall Street and the housing market out of nowhere dude. And you talk like an additional 50 cents per ride means nothing? NYC is one of the hardest hit cities in the entire country due to the huge financial sector here plus the high cost of living here.
You were the one who brought up NYC not me. Its basic stuff here though take jobs away and people dont have money thus they are not buying thus causing more job loss. Its one of those things where we have to do it. The cost would be to great and send this recession into 2010 or 2011
d2.sticky-icky said:
Well obviously the auto industry in the US didn’t innovate well. Its their fault that they focused on SUVs all this time.*edited* those guys for giving customers what they wanted.
Citan001 said:
You were the one who brought up NYC not me. Its basic stuff here though take jobs away and people dont have money thus they are not buying thus causing more job loss. Its one of those things where we have to do it. The cost would be to great and send this recession into 2010 or 2011This recession is already heading into 2010 regardless. Even when the economy was good, people weren’t buying “American” cars. Why pay more money for GM or Chrysler cars when you can pay less money for other brands and get higher quality? The cost wouldn’t be “too great” if the auto industry was shaken up. It would actually benefit them b/c the US auto industry needs to change its ways and reinnovate.
d2.sticky-icky said:
This recession is already heading into 2010 regardless. Even when the economy was good, people weren’t buying “American” cars. Why pay more money for GM or Chrysler cars when you can pay less money for other brands and get higher quality? The cost wouldn’t be “too great” if the auto industry was shaken up. It would actually benefit them b/c the US auto industry needs to change its ways and reinnovate.Go look at honda and toyota prices and tell me they are cheaper and higher quality. As an ASE certified specialist, I can tell you that that’s nothing but brainwashed garbage.
Kuros said:
Go look at honda and toyota prices and tell me they are cheaper and higher quality. As an ASE certified specialist, I can tell you that that’s nothing but brainwashed garbage.Agreed you actually end up paying more but w/e that is not the point. There is a good chance we can come out of this recession this year as well and yes the auto makers need to fix things but now is not the time. Guess what ford actually sells really well in japan they actually posted good numbers last year so um yeah the model is not that out dated. They took a risk making suvs yeah but that is because that is where they though the market was shifting to. Wagner was a joke who needed to be removed many many years ago and im glad he is gone however this new guy has yet to prove himself. He refused to take a salary of one dollar and that actually says lot because he was paid like 1.6 mil last year. If you manage to blow through that much in a year your spending way to much sorry.
Rocket Rob said:
*edited* those guys for giving customers what they wanted.Actually most smart customers wanted electric not hybrid or gas or diesel, however with the loose grip auto makers had on electric vehicles they crushed the competition and only now are regretting it.
Kuros said:
Go look at honda and toyota prices and tell me they are cheaper and higher quality. As an ASE certified specialist, I can tell you that that’s nothing but brainwashed garbage.My parents bought 2 saturns for very reasonable prices and both cars have amazing gas mileage.
YouWinGameOver said:
My parents bought 2 saturns for very reasonable prices and both cars have amazing gas mileage.Saturns are not bad cars at all, they just are not money makers for GM and will probably be dropped.
Citan001 said:
I dont think you all understand the basics of economics…..I don’t think you understand what marxism is.
Um guys its really simple remember the “New Deal” with FRD it worked then and guess what it will still work now because our banking system has not changed. Its simple if you take jobs away you stop people from spending money you cant argue with that because people will have to save money to buy the basic needs instead of pleasure items.
Citan001 said:
Um guys its really simple remember the “New Deal” with FRD it worked then and guess what it will still work now because our banking system has not changed. Its simple if you take jobs away you stop people from spending money you cant argue with that because people will have to save money to buy the basic needs instead of pleasure items.The New Deal was a complete and total failure. The vast majority of it’s provisions were unconstitutional but FDR bullied the Supreme Court into allowing them by threatening to expand the court to 12 members and “pad” it with justices sympathetic to his agenda.
WW2 ended the depression. The war alone dropped unemployment from 14% to less than 2%.
MasterP said:
The New Deal was a complete and total failure. The vast majority of it’s provisions were unconstitutional but FDR bullied the Supreme Court into allowing them by threatening to expand the court to 12 members and “pad” it with justices sympathetic to his agenda.WW2 ended the depression. The war alone dropped unemployment from 14% to less than 2%.
can you watch fox news any more closely?
it was not a complete failure. We got in the war what year? 1941? The unemployment was at 8%…
1933 unemployment was at 25% also the same year New Deal started
1934 unemployment at 16.0%
1940 unemployment 9.5%
1941 unemployment 8.0%
the time from when the new deal was started, to the beginning of the war, unemployment was reduced by 15 percentage points.
but i’m sure you’ll say those numbers would have reduced more quickly if the new deal wasn’t in place
even though Hoover a few years before with laissez-faire viewpoints failed at doing anything to help the situation. Trickle down theory, failed too. Hoover’s leave it alone policies did nothing..
WW2 definitely brought us out of the great depression, but I can’t buy the idea that the new deal was a total failure.
Your almighty leader Ronald Reagan admired FDR and got a job because of the New deal…you sure you want to say it was a complete failure? rofl
Master P you are correct in one thing. That is that war is the best and always will be the very best thing for the economy but we are in a war right now and our economy sucks. We need to create jobs i dont care how you look at it you really cant argue against that point. We need to have more spending and the only way to do that is to give people more money and the only way to do that is through jobs.
Nu_Rayz that came straight from Wikipedia. Check your facts.
Citan, I’m all about creating jobs but if all the jobs are short-term constructions orientated and low-wage they aren’t going to help, especially if they’re government jobs or contractors. Wasn’t Bush criticized for creating low-wage jobs? Now it’s ok?
Let businesses create jobs, they always do it best but can’t if their taxes are insane and the current benefits designed to offset the taxes if they hire new employees doesn’t make any sense at all.
You want one really quick way to job creator, get out of the way of power companies and let them swap steam and hydro plants for nuclear. They want to but it takes 10-15 years before they can even start building, let alone the wait for reactor parts that are only made in Japan, but used to be made here in much greater quantanties at a cheaper price. The average salary at a nuclear plant is $50k+ and they employ thousands of workers per plant.
MasterP said:
You want one really quick way to job creator, get out of the way of power companies and let them swap steam and hydro plants for nuclear. They want to but it takes 10-15 years before they can even start building, let alone the wait for reactor parts that are only made in Japan, but used to be made here in much greater quantanties at a cheaper price. The average salary at a nuclear plant is $50k+ and they employ thousands of workers per plant.This isint about creating job its about keeping the ones we already have. The average auto worker on the line gets paid like 56 bucks an hour ok and this is just with a high school education. Master P the point im trying to make is that creating jobs is great but doesnt do crap if your taking other jobs away. As for the government contracts they are the best thing in the world. I know a buddy of mine got part of the border fence contract. Cost him like 1.3 mil to build and he pocketed close to 7mil and thats just on one job. I wish I could land a job like that and retire right now. Btw there is a website where they post the contracts they have. Few months ago there was one for like 2mil to go to south american and teach english for 18 months.
Citan001 said:
Cost him like 1.3 mil to build and he pocketed close to 7mil and thats just on one job.That demonstrates why we’re in the financial situation we are. I have nothing against making a profit but *edited* if you’re going to sit there and condemn CEOs for pocketing this kind of money and the praising contactors for doing the same thing. I mean paying $7 million to build a $1.3 million stretch of fense is wrong and you can’t argue that it doesn’t contribute a large part to our current financial issues.
It has nothing to do with that. He didnt take private money for it no it was a contract. Master P in the world of construction thats how it has always worked. You know how much it costs to build a house in relation to how much they sell it for? Normal every day general contractors are charing double for a house and guess what they get to pocket like 50% of whatever it is they charge. The point I was trying to make with this thread is that now Wagner is gone he was bad for the company and maybe now the company get its act together and get into the game.
MasterP said:
Nu_Rayz that came straight from Wikipedia. Check your facts.Citan, I’m all about creating jobs but if all the jobs are short-term constructions orientated and low-wage they aren’t going to help, especially if they’re government jobs or contractors. Wasn’t Bush criticized for creating low-wage jobs? Now it’s ok?
Let businesses create jobs, they always do it best but can’t if their taxes are insane and the current benefits designed to offset the taxes if they hire new employees doesn’t make any sense at all.
You want one really quick way to job creator, get out of the way of power companies and let them swap steam and hydro plants for nuclear. They want to but it takes 10-15 years before they can even start building, let alone the wait for reactor parts that are only made in Japan, but used to be made here in much greater quantanties at a cheaper price. The average salary at a nuclear plant is $50k+ and they employ thousands of workers per plant.
you got me. lol
BUT other sources do show that Reagan found a job under the new deal, and liked FDR so ha!
The new deal did work guys you cant really argue about it. Yes the war helped out tons too but it cant take all the credit.
The only REAL thing that the New Deal did was create an Idea that people could follow behind and boost moral. Inflation still plagued everyone. Banks were still in *edited*ty positions. The New Deal did NOTHING to create new jobs (as that was the 2nd new deal and the WPA noobs).
Also, unemployment only went down around 3% the whole time the “New Deals” were in effect, in fact, it was not until 1940, when they actually started to decrease noticeably. Before that they were at an average of 19% ( years 1933-1939).
Note on that 19%. the source Ive been reading does not count people in the WPA as employed as they were only fed & housed with very minimal wages ( as in enough beer money… not enough to make a living). In statistic where the WPA counted as employment, the average unemployment rate was closer to 14-15% witch averages in 37-38 being only 10% while 33-36,39 all averaged about 19%
GG those 2 years of conscription. You can argue that they were employed as they got wages, but the wages would be more comparative to the lawns you mowed on Saturdays when you were 12. Enough to buy a few pleasures in life but no possible way to live.
The only reason Reagen idolized FDR was because they both realized the secret to the budget. You don’t have to worry about spending, just use all the money you want and you will win.
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