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pinkcs said:
Hmm, will have to see how that works, I can see switching the best players from one team with the worst of the other going very wrong. As often its simply 2 or 3 people who over power any one team anyway.Does the balancer take into account CT vs T team wins?
First off, if you want to comment and its a flame or its non-constructive criticism, save it, it wont help anything.
In a nutshell:
The team balancer works on two principles. The first being team size. If the team sizes are unbalanced, it fixes that. If it fixes the sizes it doesnt do anything else that round.
The second principle is winning streaks. Now, this is where it gets complicated but I’m going to make it as easy to understand as I can.
For example: Lets say we are playing assault and its 12v12. The Terrorists are kicking the snot out of the CT’s. Big surprise, right?
So we have hit round 3 since starting the map. (The balancer checks for winning streaks of 3) The balancer checks the teams out and says oh, T’s won again. Lets shake things up a bit. (Now, this is keeping in mind that nobody has been swapped yet.) It goes okay, lets get the top 4 players from the terrorist team and move them to the counter-terrorist team. Okay, check. Now, lets get 4 players from the middle of the counter-terrorist team and move them to the terrorist team, making sure to ignore the people we just swapped. Check.
Okay, rounds over, move the people, start the new round and see how it goes. If someone wins another 3 rounds in a row, it does the above all over again, however, the second time it does it, it excludes everyone it moved the first time. Otherwise we simply flip flop back and forth.
It will eventually get back to those people that it originally moved, once their balance-protection has worn off, which can be anywhere from 1-2 balances.
So thats it in a nutshell though the logic and code is a lot more complex. If something is confusing or doesn’t make sense, let me know and I’ll try to explain.
Thanks for everyones help and constructive input on making this thing better.
good thread laim, and thank you for the hard and yet frustrating work. Just keep in mind a Team Balancer can not make everything perfect. someone some how is going to get upset among being switch or being on the loosing team… its lyfe. the Team Balancer is here to help make the majority of the players have a good time on our servers.
and as far as my constructive input:
Does the TB read when a player join/leave the server or switch teams.. or what if an admin moves players.. what does the TB do that round?
NoDice said:
good thread laim, and thank you for the hard and yet frustrating work. Just keep in mind a Team Balancer can not make everything perfect. someone some how is going to get upset among being switch or being on the loosing team… its lyfe. the Team Balancer is here to help make the majority of the players have a good time on our servers.and as far as my constructive input:
Does the TB read when a player join/leave the server or switch teams.. or what if an admin moves players.. what does the TB do that round?
The team balancer does take into account when a player joins and when they leave. Upon join, a players information is automatically added into the PlayerList. When they leave, they are removed.
At the start and end of each round the ctTeam and tTeam lists are cleared and then rebuilt with current data from PlayerList, thereby taking into account if a player is moved, dropped, kicked, disconnected, or eaten by the Internet.
Just as a note, the PlayerList is *only* used for keeping up with connected players. The ctTeam and tTeam lists are used for everything else that way its always fresh data.
One thing I realized today Liam is the possibility of the balancer switching the one and only good player off of a team after the first round. What if you’re on a team of people who’ve never played WCU before and are complete noobs, yet you get say 5 glock kills the first round, even though your team loses? You get switched to a dominating CT team, for example, and now the T’s have lost their only good player. I think the balancer is a little too sensitive right now with player kills, I mean just having one good round doesn’t warrant an automatic switch to the other team.
Another thing about actual numerical team balance: Tonight I saw a stacked team winning the game, and it was 8v7 in favor of that team. So not only were they pwning up but the team balancer wouldn’t spot them the extra player for that slight advantage.
Those are pretty much the only problems I see, otherwise good work Liam!
I’ve also seen this going down Liam, the one thing I would suggest is making it so if the teams cant be equal that the extra be given to the losing team, would that be hard to do?
Bitey said:
I’ve also seen this going down Liam, the one thing I would suggest is making it so if the teams cant be equal that the extra be given to the losing team, would that be hard to do?Shouldn’t be hard, but I believe it does that already. Or it does in the one I just recently released because it moves more than one person. I’ll check the code though and if the changes I just did dont help then we’ll do that. We are going from moving one person at a time up to x amt depending on how many people are on at the time.
I’ve seen some really poor balancing happen on occasion this morning. Half of it just confuses me but I’II try and explain incase someone can make sense of it. Here we go…
#1 The leading scorer on the winning team never swaps teams.
#2 The leading team have all positive K:D ratios the losing team have all negative K:D ratios and no balancing takes place.
#3 The lowest ranked player on the winning (utterly dominating) team with 0 kills and multiple deaths gets switched to the losing team to Balance when someone specs/leaves.
Its felt all morning like the balancer has been more concerned about team numbers, which is a valid issue, but the swaps it has and the swaps it hasn’t made have been allowing one team to dominate.
I played nuke earlier where my team was completely destroyed each round by constant strong rushes by a much more experienced team, towards the end of the game I was switched to the CT team when I was the leading T scorer and swapped out for a Mid ranked CT, the CT team then continued to dominate and I switched back to the T team to help even things out a couple of rounds later because I couldn’t stand hearing the constant calls of ‘Rape!’ from the CT side.
Through out all this the Balancer concentrated on keeping teams numbers fair, as often new comers stacked the winning team, but it allowed the CTs to have the extra man when one was available and also never moved either of the top two possibly three CT top scorers.
Also on a number of occasions over various maps the balancer would switch the losing teams top scorer to the winning team, instead of vice versa, which seemed a little like maybe an erroneous line in the code.
This has already been said but I will say it again, the point of this balancer is not to take the top scorers from the winning team and switch them with the bottom scorers of the losing team all that does is flip flop the problem. Basically think of this like air conditioning if you are hot and want to cool down then you it wont matter if you turn the air down to 69 or 40 its still gonna take just as long to cool down. What I am trying to say is the balance wont be instant and it will take time for it to properly balance the teams.
pinkcs said:
I’ve seen some really poor balancing happen on occasion this morning. Half of it just confuses me but I’II try and explain incase someone can make sense of it. Here we go…#1 The leading scorer on the winning team never swaps teams.
#2 The leading team have all positive K:D ratios the losing team have all negative K:D ratios and no balancing takes place.
#3 The lowest ranked player on the winning (utterly dominating) team with 0 kills and multiple deaths gets switched to the losing team to Balance when someone specs/leaves.
Its felt all morning like the balancer has been more concerned about team numbers, which is a valid issue, but the swaps it has and the swaps it hasn’t made have been allowing one team to dominate.
I played nuke earlier where my team was completely destroyed each round by constant strong rushes by a much more experienced team, towards the end of the game I was switched to the CT team when I was the leading T scorer and swapped out for a Mid ranked CT, the CT team then continued to dominate and I switched back to the T team to help even things out a couple of rounds later because I couldn’t stand hearing the constant calls of ‘Rape!’ from the CT side.
Through out all this the Balancer concentrated on keeping teams numbers fair, as often new comers stacked the winning team, but it allowed the CTs to have the extra man when one was available and also never moved either of the top two possibly three CT top scorers.
Also on a number of occasions over various maps the balancer would switch the losing teams top scorer to the winning team, instead of vice versa, which seemed a little like maybe an erroneous line in the code.
I’ll check it out.
As Kuros stated in another post. “The team balancer is a constantly evolving plugin.” We are trying different approaches to find out what works *best*. The issue of moving *one* person at a time on a 12v12 map was utterly pointless, it didn’t do anything.
The only reason I could think it didn’t move the top scorers is because they’d already been moved once, but again, I will check it.
just a suggestion: can the balancer read the first 3 or so letter/symbols of everyones names thus catching peoples clan tags and splitting them up.
NoDice said:
just a suggestion: can the balancer read the first 3 or so letter/symbols of everyones names thus catching peoples clan tags and splitting them up.Can you write me on AIM or hop onto IRC?
my aim is rbutler514
question… are you doing anything right now with the team balancer according to scores… or change something that would effect that?
K:D is usually a pretty good indicator of balance — the team with the most players with the best K:Ds will win the most rounds.
On like… Chateau or something it was like 7:0 when I checked the scores, And the balancer swaped people, swaped em back, it did nothing to actually help the losen team
Oh and, This is the WCUTB suggestions / information thread. DONT FLAME
Never ask to not get flamed, It doesnt go well../flame
Bracket said:
On like… Chateau or something it was like 7:0 when I checked the scores, And the balancer swaped people, swaped em back, it did nothing to actually help the losen teamOh and, This is the WCUTB suggestions / information thread. DONT FLAME
Never ask to not get flamed, It doesnt go well../flame
You flame me you will get your nether regions roasted.
The WCUTB is broken atm. We also cant fix it atm due to a problem with Tron. So when that issue is resolved, then they can drop in the fix.
Please refer to this:http://www.wcugaming.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=6827&view=findpost&p=17453
I have a question/comment – I know this isn’t how it’s designed, because the TB takes current information. But would it be able to store 1 map of info at a time and erase it at the end of the map.
I know this is a lot more complicated than I think so don’t kill me.
But if you record the kills/deaths throughout the game then people that d/c and rejoin for money or whatever won’t mess up the TB, Also you can get a better reading of trends and such. With it recording the information from both teams and stacking that info up side by side in a list, it might be able to make better decisions and avoid getting swaphappy with one or two players.
Just talkin so if this is just poo poo, someone crap on me and tell me not to dabble in comp stuff.
Renton said:
I have a question/comment – I know this isn’t how it’s designed, because the TB takes current information. But would it be able to store 1 map of info at a time and erase it at the end of the map.I know this is a lot more complicated than I think so don’t kill me.
But if you record the kills/deaths throughout the game then people that d/c and rejoin for money or whatever won’t mess up the TB, Also you can get a better reading of trends and such. With it recording the information from both teams and stacking that info up side by side in a list, it might be able to make better decisions and avoid getting swaphappy with one or two players.
Just talkin so if this is just poo poo, someone crap on me and tell me not to dabble in comp stuff.
Not worth it. Some people are better on some maps than they are on the other.
D/C and rejoining for cash will get you a 20 minute ban now so dont do it.
bracket? can you even play on this server anymore? i noticed you had one with your name on it…hmmmmmmm scandolous
What’s up with the team balancer lately liam? It has been stacking the teams for some *edited* reason. FFS on the mill pic the WCUTB told everyone that no balancing was necessary.
Brian said:
What’s up with the team balancer lately liam? It has been stacking the teams for some *edited* reason. FFS on the mill pic the WCUTB told everyone that no balancing was necessary.ITS locked the gaming club out of Tron. Therefor there is no way to update the plugin. If we unload it, it crashes the server. If the server crashes, it may not come back up.
ITS has said they’ll update it at some point. It’s waiting on them though.
Best thing to do for now is just move people around as well as you can.
Ty. I have always wondered how the TB has worked.
No point D/C just for cash. If you are good then you win money, no need to D/C for cash and getting banned. Even if it is for just 20mins…not worth it.
I do not D/C for cash. pshhh pointless.
Robot your wrong, It is not. But it is agasint the rules now so you do it and get in trouble, But pointless? No.
And Liam, Thanks for the better balancer
Bracket said:
Robot your wrong, It is not. But it is agasint the rules now so you do it and get in trouble, But pointless? No.And Liam, Thanks for the better balancer
Yarr. Its working well to you? Any changes? Hatemail? Lovemail?
hahah
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