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Hi guys, I have never really read the forums here before, but after last night I figured I would register and give you guys a little heads up to go with a few questions I have.
Last night I was playing Aztec, everything was fine, CT’s were winning fairly consistently so people were being auto’d back and forth to try and even things out. Then at the end of one round a member of my team, Kem, was switched from the CT’s to the T’s. Now you know how at the end of the round if someone gets auto’d they will get switched at the very end of the round just before people spawn for the next round. Well Kem got auto’d and I was standing near him with a bunch of other CT’s, I think we were in the bridge room but I can’t remember for sure, and he got auto’d, I saw his character model to change, to a T model and instantly, I’m talking instantly he starts shooting with a deagle and killed 2 or 3 of us standing there, with one shot head shots. Ok, so I could maybe believe if he was just clicking like an idiot or shooting before he got auto’d if he got one of us with a random head shot, but he got a few of us, in well under one second, probably less than half a second which I can tell you as a graduate of Kinesiology with a few classes in Motor Learning and Motor Performance under my belt that a feat like that is flat out impossible. I can give you a rather detailed description of that if you like, but this post isn’t really about the feasibility of a given users response time.
Now my questions are, you need a demo to ban someone for hacking correct? I read the sticky on how to take a demo, but where does one submit it? How do you get a users Steam ID so that someone in a demo can be identified by something other than their current name which we all changing is as easy as `name “randomname”.
If someone could keep an eye on this clown that would be great, I realize this is simply a Me vs. Him type of argument, but I felt like you guys should have a heads up.
Thanks for running a great server.
-Bryce
Your best bet in this situation is to record the demo and submit it to one of the Gaming Club executives or adam37. To get his SteamID, all you have to do is type status in console and press F5 to take a screen shot of it. You can even hit print screen and paste it into MSPaint, we aren’t picky
Finding a Gaming Club exec is extremely easy if you use our IRC channel. If you don’t have IRC or don’t know how to use it there is a nifty link at the top of http://www.wcugaming.org that you can click and it will take you directly to us. If you’d like to install IRC and idle our channel, check out this awesome tutorial Falcon made by going here: http://www.wcugaming.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=6121
Thanks for the heads up and we always love to hear compliments on our servers!
Somehow that doesn’t surprise me…
I think he knew he got caught as soon as I called him on it, he didn’t even reply with the typical hacker STFU noob type response… I shoulda stuck around and watched him some more but I got frustrated and went to do some studying, yeah, that’s how annoyed I was…
-Bryce
I must agree with BigDumbRuskie. I have seen keM do that many times, but i really didnt know what to make of it, and you never know when its coming so you cant really demo it. Best get rid of him, cause if you look at the logs, youll see alot of keM hacker complaints.
Um, Sorry to say, but I actually have talked to kem a lot. And if I remember correctly, he’s had cal p exp. And if you think he’s bad that that stuff, go take a look at red too. He does the same thing. As soon as he gets switched he’ll kill 1-2 people. Every time. So ifyou’re going to ban kem, go ahead and ban red too.
Joe Kickass (RaVeN) said:
I must agree with BigDumbRuskie. I have seen keM do that many times, but i really didnt know what to make of it, and you never know when its coming so you cant really demo it. Best get rid of him, cause if you look at the logs, youll see alot of keM hacker complaints.Exactly, it only happens in certain circumstnaces, I mean you could record demos of him for entire maps and not have it happen, but I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks it is fairly obvious.
aznjun said:
Um, Sorry to say, but I actually have talked to kem a lot. And if I remember correctly, he’s had cal p exp. And if you think he’s bad that that stuff, go take a look at red too. He does the same thing. As soon as he gets switched he’ll kill 1-2 people. Every time. So ifyou’re going to ban kem, go ahead and ban red too.I thought months ago that red was hacking, I’ve seen him pull this BS trick before and red is hands down the most accurate wall banger I have EVER seen. I certainly woulnd’t be upset if he was politely shown the door. :shrug:
I realize that you guys need proof to ban people, so like I requested in my first post, if the admins could just keep an eye on them that is really all that can be done.
Out of total curiousity, does anyone know the exact amount of time between someone getting auto’d and when people spawn for the next round? I’m just curious as to exactly how much faster the hacks are than an actual person.
-Bryce
Joe Kickass (RaVeN) said:
Jun, it doesnt matter if hes CAL or not. THAT is irrelevant.I think its completely relevant. In fact, it has everything to do with what were talking about. I have no clue whether Kem’s reaction time is humanly possible or not but does that make a difference? With certain settings, specifically mouse acceleration, set correctly why wouldn’t it be possible to kill 2 or more closely grouped people in less than a second.
In fact if what we are discussing is skill level you must realize that I’ve watched KeM and still do, constantly. Although I’ve never seen him perform that action, I have watched his X hairs and I can say that it resembels legitimate skill.
So since we are actually discussing whether or not it is possible for him since you can kill players (especially in a close group) in under a second, what you really have to ask is:
1. Where were his cross hairs at the time of switch? If the round had finished and he knew he was going to get swapped was he prepared to get at least 1 kill instantly.
2. What was his rate of fire? In other words did he spray or take single shots?
3. How closely grouped were the CT’s?
Before anything such as perma banning is done we should patiently study our subject with these points in mind and work from there.
P.S. I noticed an extra “to” in BDR’s post. The grammar police officer is not effectively utilizing his or her so called skills
Its NOT relevant.
Granted, he may be very good, but using a character switching hack (which more than a few have accused him of), as opposed to an aimbot or wallhack (which hes not), makes this irrelevant.
He may very well have played in CAL. At least thats what he says, has he given you any reason to trust him?
The point im getting to here is, even if he did play in cal, the fact that this is a character switching hack of some kind, and not a traditional wallhack or aimbot, makes this irrelevant.
Also, he is changing teams in the MIDDLE OF ROUNDS. So the irrelevance furthers for this CAL theory.
this sounds like its turning into a witch hunt all this and no demo showing this as you call {hack} and there could be several things that could explain how fast a person can react mouse ;headset, this is just to thing not to mention if he in fact does have high cal exp it has total relevance due to the fact if you good enough to be cal p most people with out much cal exp would think that they are hackers. mostly because there not as fast so they don’t think it is possible to be and start threads like this one
this sounds like its turning into a witch hunt all this and no demo showing this as you call {hack} and there could be several things that could explain how fast a person can react mouse ;headset, this is just two thing not to mention if he in fact does have high cal exp it has total relevance due to the fact if you good enough to be cal p most people with out much cal exp would think that they are hackers. mostly because there not as fast so they don’t think it is possible to be and start threads like this one
Deathspirit said:
I have no clue whether Kem’s reaction time is humanly possible or not but does that make a difference? With certain settings, specifically mouse acceleration, set correctly why wouldn’t it be possible to kill 2 or more closely grouped people in less than a second.I think it makes a difference. He had a deagle out, he got auto’d, turned fired a single shot in my face, then turned and got someone else with a single shot in the face as well. If he was spraying with a colt or ak and got someone I would think nothing of it, but for him to accomplish something like this he would
1. Need to realize he had been auto’d by the server, I know personally I NEVER notice at the end of the round, and then when I spawn on the other side of the map I think to myself “oh, I got switched”, but assuming he saw the little message in amongst the chat messages he would then have too
2. Move his mouse to aim at someone’s face
3. Click to fire a single shot
4. Locate his next target
5. Move his mouse to the next person’s face
6. Click to fire again
Each one of those steps must be retrieved from Long Term Memory in your brain, placed into Short Term Memory, have the motor program executed, and then the next step can begin. All of those things take time, now I’m no Computer Scientist, but I would think a program would have no trouble at all executing something like that in a very very short time frame.
Deathspirit said:
So since we are actually discussing whether or not it is possible for him since you can kill players (especially in a close group) in under a second, what you really have to ask is:1. Where were his cross hairs at the time of switch? If the round had finished and he knew he was going to get swapped was he prepared to get at least 1 kill instantly.
2. What was his rate of fire? In other words did he spray or take single shots?
3. How closely grouped were the CT’s?
We were somewhat close, but certainly not lined up for him, and he definitely had to turn and fire, they were single shots with a deagle, I don’t believe that the AMX mod thingy gives any kind of indication or warning as to who is about to be switched in an attempt to even the teams out, it just switches them correct?
Joe Kickass (RaVeN) said:
Its NOT relevant.Granted, he may be very good, but using a character switching hack (which more than a few have accused him of), as opposed to an aimbot or wallhack (which hes not), makes this irrelevant.
He may very well have played in CAL. At least thats what he says, has he given you any reason to trust him?
The point im getting to here is, even if he did play in cal, the fact that this is a character switching hack of some kind, and not a traditional wallhack or aimbot, makes this irrelevant.
Also, he is changing teams in the MIDDLE OF ROUNDS. So the irrelevance furthers for this CAL theory.
I think maybe you are thinking of something else, I am talking about at the very end of a round when the server switches someone from one team to the other in an attempt to even things out.
Ex said:
this sounds like its turning into a witch hunt all this and no demo showing this as you call {hack} and there could be several things that could explain how fast a person can react mouse ;headset, this is just to thing not to mention if he in fact does have high cal exp it has total relevance due to the fact if you good enough to be cal p most people with out much cal exp would think that they are hackers. mostly because there not as fast so they don’t think it is possible to be and start threads like this oneI never intended for this to resemble any kind of witch hunt, I was simply letting people know what I saw and why I thought it was suspicious so that the Administrators could keep an eye on things. I don’t have any cal experience, but I had a friend who used to play competitively, he used to play lots of LANs where they would always inspect everyone’s machine for hacks to ensure things were fair, and he did quite well, I used to sit and watch him play and thing he was hacking, but I knew he wasn’t because when I went to play on his machine I would suck just as bad as normal
. Heck, if he is totally legit, banning him might be good for him, if he does in fact have this super human response time he could and should be making MILLIONS elsewhere, not playing CS…Anyways, the Admins say they are watching and that is all that can really be done and that was all I was asking for in the first place.
-Bryce
kEm is an extremely sketch player. And people consistently use CAL as an indication of how good players are. News flash: At least 85% of all CAL players suck total *edited*. It doesn’t take much to call yourself a CAL player. If he’s hitting people that fast, it may very well be an aimbot picking them up after he’s switched. Since they would be on opposing teams after the switch, the bot would pick it up just like it would in round.
He didn’t post this to get flamed. He posted it to get the attention of admins so that they would keep an eye on the situation. So stop flaming in this thread and pay more attention to what these threads are really about.
I dont hack.
also. when you get PTB’ed to the other team, you do have a chance to kill the other team, i did not know this until someone shot me first, and if you want that to stop all you have to do is ask
Kuros said:
kEm is an extremely sketch player. And people consistently use CAL as an indication of how good players are. News flash: At least 85% of all CAL players suck total *edited*. It doesn’t take much to call yourself a CAL player. If he’s hitting people that fast, it may very well be an aimbot picking them up after he’s switched. Since they would be on opposing teams after the switch, the bot would pick it up just like it would in round.He didn’t post this to get flamed. He posted it to get the attention of admins so that they would keep an eye on the situation. So stop flaming in this thread and pay more attention to what these threads are really about.
You can see your name get switched on the bottom left hand corner in the text Thats how you know ur getting switched
Also, if you want me to constantly record my demos to prove you wrong/take SS’s that is also possible.
kem- said:
I dont hack.also. when you get PTB’ed to the other team, you do have a chance to kill the other team, i did not know this until someone shot me first, and if you want that to stop all you have to do is ask
You can see your name get switched on the bottom left hand corner in the text Thats how you know ur getting switched
Also, if you want me to constantly record my demos to prove you wrong/take SS’s that is also possible.
Why would one record themselves hacking? Doesn’t make much sense does it?
Kuros said:
Why would one record themselves hacking? Doesn’t make much sense does it?Why you would you jump to conclusions that i hack?
im offering to give you some proof that i do not hack.
Joe Kickass (RaVeN) said:
Its NOT relevant.Granted, he may be very good, but using a character switching hack (which more than a few have accused him of), as opposed to an aimbot or wallhack (which hes not), makes this irrelevant.
He may very well have played in CAL. At least thats what he says, has he given you any reason to trust him?
The point im getting to here is, even if he did play in cal, the fact that this is a character switching hack of some kind, and not a traditional wallhack or aimbot, makes this irrelevant.
Also, he is changing teams in the MIDDLE OF ROUNDS. So the irrelevance furthers for this CAL theory.
I do not switch teams in the middle of the round, PTB switches me and i shoot the other team because im still alive, it is not called a “switching hack” its PTB messing up
BigDumbRussian said:
1. Need to realize he had been auto’d by the server, I know personally I NEVER notice at the end of the round, and then when I spawn on the other side of the map I think to myself “oh, I got switched”, but assuming he saw the little message in amongst the chat messages he would then have too2. Move his mouse to aim at someone’s face
3. Click to fire a single shot
4. Locate his next target
5. Move his mouse to the next person’s face
6. Click to fire again
Each one of those steps must be retrieved from Long Term Memory in your brain, placed into Short Term Memory, have the motor program executed, and then the next step can begin. All of those things take time, now I’m no Computer Scientist, but I would think a program would have no trouble at all executing something like that in a very very short time frame.
We were somewhat close, but certainly not lined up for him, and he definitely had to turn and fire, they were single shots with a deagle, I don’t believe that the AMX mod thingy gives any kind of indication or warning as to who is about to be switched in an attempt to even the teams out, it just switches them correct?
I think maybe you are thinking of something else, I am talking about at the very end of a round when the server switches someone from one team to the other in an attempt to even things out.
I never intended for this to resemble any kind of witch hunt, I was simply letting people know what I saw and why I thought it was suspicious so that the Administrators could keep an eye on things. I don’t have any cal experience, but I had a friend who used to play competitively, he used to play lots of LANs where they would always inspect everyone’s machine for hacks to ensure things were fair, and he did quite well, I used to sit and watch him play and thing he was hacking, but I knew he wasn’t because when I went to play on his machine I would suck just as bad as normal
. Heck, if he is totally legit, banning him might be good for him, if he does in fact have this super human response time he could and should be making MILLIONS elsewhere, not playing CS…Anyways, the Admins say they are watching and that is all that can really be done and that was all I was asking for in the first place.
-Bryce
I have avoided this topic a on purpose to see if it was POSSIBLE to kill someone during this time.
Earlier in the today I was playing with raven in italy and noticed he was switched to ct. I proceeded to jump on his head and try to knife him. I missed, but I saw the reality of the problem. There appears to be something of a 1 – 3 second window before the round restarts. I’m not gonna get into reaction time because all I know is our brain is as fast as, if not slighty faster than, a 3ghz processor.
As far as how long it takes for something to register it varies from person to person and has more to do with experience and focus than just pure reflex.
There are scenarios of mom’s lifting cars to get their child out from under it. Adrenaline does crazy things to the body.
On to some of the better points:
1. Is it possible to see a switched player? Yes
2. Is it possible to shoot at this person? Yes.
3. Is it possible to kill this person? Unconfirmed but I think yes
4. It is extremely easy to become Cal O but its harder to claim anything more. Skill has everything to do with focus and reaction, as such while everything must be taken with a grain of salt, it is fair to note that some players display certain characteristics of skillful play, especially in this case.
5. Closely grouped players make for easier kills.
6. I personally think KeM DL’ed his skill
But, we’ll seeDeathspirit said:
I have avoided this topic a on purpose to see if it was POSSIBLE to kill someone during this time.Earlier in the today I was playing with raven in italy and noticed he was switched to ct. I proceeded to jump on his head and try to knife him. I missed, but I saw the reality of the problem. There appears to be something of a 1 – 3 second window before the round restarts. I’m not gonna get into reaction time because all I know is our brain is as fast as, if not slighty faster than, a 3ghz processor.
As far as how long it takes for something to register it varies from person to person and has more to do with experience and focus than just pure reflex.
There are scenarios of mom’s lifting cars to get their child out from under it. Adrenaline does crazy things to the body.
On to some of the better points:
1. Is it possible to see a switched player? Yes
2. Is it possible to shoot at this person? Yes.
3. Is it possible to kill this person? Unconfirmed but I think yes
4. It is extremely easy to become Cal O but its harder to claim anything more. Skill has everything to do with focus and reaction, as such while everything must be taken with a grain of salt, it is fair to note that some players display certain characteristics of skillful play, especially in this case.
5. Closely grouped players make for easier kills.
6. I personally think KeM DL’ed his skill
But, we’ll seeOk, you noticed Raven get auto’d, but do you think you could notice yourself getting auto’d? Where on earth did you hear our brain is as fast a computer chip of whatever speed? Got a link? (and not some website that says my uncles brothers friend says so, academic material please), I find that rather suspect, but that isn’t really the point of this thread. I fail to see what adrenaline has to do with things either, were playing CS, not actually killing people in real life…
Anyways, all I wanted to do was bring my suspicions to the attention of the powers that be, and I feel like that has been done.
-Bryce
BigDumbRussian said:
Ok, you noticed Raven get auto’d, but do you think you could notice yourself getting auto’d? Where on earth did you hear our brain is as fast a computer chip of whatever speed? Got a link? (and not some website that says my uncles brothers friend says so, academic material please), I find that rather suspect, but that isn’t really the point of this thread. I fail to see what adrenaline has to do with things either, were playing CS, not actually killing people in real life…Anyways, all I wanted to do was bring my suspicions to the attention of the powers that be, and I feel like that has been done.
-Bryce
You notice yourself getting auto’ed Because it TELLS YOU in the Left hand corner of your screen in plain white text
and if your a TAB *edited* like me you also notice yourself being switched in TAB on the scoresheet. to make things easier for you BDR, ill go in the server tonight when i get home and ill make a quick demo on how you can point out on being switched and ill upload it to you or make some Screenshots for you just to show you that it is possible
NEAS said:
Im gonna go grab some popcorn and wait for the outcome of this.Man that popcorn’s getting old. Demo’s coming next time I play. Which should be tomorrow. Btw — I was swapped earlier today and almost killed someone, but I suck and cant aim so eh I missed
Is it possible to see a switched player? Yes
Is it possible to shoot at this person? Yes.
ive done it many times and Yes it tells you in the left corner that you have been switched
HexFlex said:
Is it possible to see a switched player? YesIs it possible to shoot at this person? Yes.
ive done it many times and Yes it tells you in the left corner that you have been switched
No one is questioning if you can do it or not, we know you can. Its the amount of times hes successfully been able to do this task over and over. It is a short amount of time to headshot 2 Cts in a split second.
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